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Author Topic: Foundation or foundationless  (Read 2335 times)
10framer
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2013, 10:55:24 AM »

The only problem with foundationless is sometimes they like to build 90 degrees to the way we want them to build comb.  Don't waste the money on foundation, I wish someone had notified me to save the money....want some?

You can get them to build mostly straight comb by always adding the new frames between two straight ones.

One of the beauties of foundationless is, that you can put your new frames right into the middle of the broodnest (one at a time!). That's because they don't represent a barrier for the queen. It's just as if a comb had broken off and the bees will try to fill the gap asap, giving you very fast comb building.
 
Only one caution: don't do this towards autumn, as you don't want unbred comb in the center of your hive, the bees might not cross it in winter, leading to isolation starvation.


Wiring:

I use strong nylon fishing line, strung horizontally.
If you drill 4 holes into each sidebar, you can pull the line through, wrap it around a nail on one end, hammer in the nail, stretch the line and secure it with another nail at the other end.
You should be able to play it like a harp.
As a starter I wrap a narrow strip of foundation around the top line, but this might not always be necessary.
The bees will incorporate the fishing line in their comb, which makes the comb safe to handle and extract.

Fishing line won't conduct heat the same as wire, so the bees don't mind it so much. It's also nicer to handle.
Mine says 32.3 kg/65lb on the package. 

If you get too much drone comb you can just use that for a full size honey super after the drones have hatched.

Best of luck with it!


i never considered that.  that would be a lot easier to work with than wire but i wonder how long it will last inside.  monofilament tends to dry rot.  i will be trying it.  thanks.
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Moots
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2013, 10:57:23 AM »

I use the eyelets because I use wire and definitely think they are necessary and lend an advantage.  I've never tried the fishing line technique, but can see where they may not be necessary with it.
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gov1623
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2013, 11:39:14 AM »

10framer
I started using fishing line on my deep frames last year and so far its still holding strong. It really only needs to last  until the bees fully draw out the frame and attach it to the sides of the frame. After that the comb is strong enough and it really don't need support. I went to all foundation less in the brood boxes and love it.   
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10framer
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2013, 11:50:57 AM »

10framer
I started using fishing line on my deep frames last year and so far its still holding strong. It really only needs to last  until the bees fully draw out the frame and attach it to the sides of the frame. After that the comb is strong enough and it really don't need support. I went to all foundation less in the brood boxes and love it.   
gov,
that's what i was thinking.  i'll use the nylon on my deeps and wire my mediums.  i'll probably use something lighter than 30# test, though.  i'm thinking 12# would do the job.
i can't believe that never crossed my mind.  that will be a definite time saver.
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gov1623
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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2013, 12:07:05 PM »

10 framer
I use 15lb test but that's mainly because its what i fish with.
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Georgia Boy
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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2013, 05:50:44 PM »

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the feedback.

I had seen Don the fat beeman uses fishing line for support in his frames.  Mainly does it so he doesn't have to worry about wires when he is cutting queen cells out of foundation. Just cut right through it. No fuss no muss. No damaged queen cells.

It should be great if you are doing cut comb also.  Seem like you could just snip the end and pull it right out without mess up the comb. Don't really know but might work.
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10framer
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« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2013, 06:01:00 PM »

10 framer
I use 15lb test but that's mainly because its what i fish with.

 i need to be fishing with you i usually get by with 10 or 12 pound test.
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Georgia Boy
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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2013, 06:03:22 PM »

You and me both.. I usually only use 6 to 8 lb test.  LOL  Smiley
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bailey
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« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2013, 09:44:55 PM »

What are you guys fishing for with that line?   Bait?Huh
Come to the coast and let us show you fishing!! evil
Bailey
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« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2013, 09:54:07 PM »

After you catch 100 speckled trout in about an hour you will know why we need heavier line. There teeth cut right through the line. And we usually always hook into a few bull reds which make a joke out of 15lb test.  Got to love South Louisiana!!!!!
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10framer
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« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2013, 10:44:09 PM »

last i checked all the new limits won't let you keep too many of those fancy saltwater fish.  i mostly chase the elusive largemouth bass but i've been know to go after a catfish or two.
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PLAN-B
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« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2013, 10:48:54 PM »

Is that a little bragging I hear grin got to love southeast Louisiana.... Catch large mouth bass in one cast and specks-reds and flounder in the next three cast... Love it... 17lb. Is what I normally throw, just can't horse in those big reds.....
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Marshall
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« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2013, 10:53:46 PM »

A daily limit of reds and specks and I bet you change your tune 10 frame.   
We're talking 3 gallons of fillets if you keep the right fish.
Unless your fishing catfish you won't get that much meat in fresh water and still be home for noon.  evil
Bailey
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most often i find my greatest source of stress to be OPS  ( other peoples stupidity )

It is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and in so doing remove all doubt.
10framer
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« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2013, 12:03:03 AM »

oh, i've gone out and caught a grouper or two.  i've got a friend with a boat in florida that does a lot of inland fishing like that. 
man, i grew up on the back waters of the chattahoochee and we could go out three times a day and fill up on crappie like that when i was a kid.  when i was around 30 i did a lot of bass fishing and you could do the same things with spots/shoals/largemouth until the stripes they had released a few years before got big enough to out compete them. 
i'm just as happy carp fishing as i am 35 miles out.  i haven't had much time for any of it over the last 4 or 5 years, though.
and i'm just messing with you guys, saltwater vs. freshwater is like auburn vs. alabama around here.
i'll be passing through yall's way next week on my way to houston.  i haven't been past mobile in 35 years.  besides biloxi what else do i want to see?  i'm not on a real tight schedule.
also, what is land going for an acre in ms. and la. these days?  i'd want at least 35 to 40 acres.
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10framer
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« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2013, 12:06:17 AM »

sorry about hijacking the thread seag.  you're a couple of hours from me if you end up near columbus or macon give me a heads up and you can come see some of what trying to do. 
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Georgia Boy
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« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2013, 08:33:00 PM »

Hey Guys,

You can hijack my thread anytime if you are talking fishing.  I absolutely LOVE fishing even if I'm not catching anything.

As for 6 to 8lb test, I don't have a boat and can only walk the bank so I don't get many big ones. Sad

I enjoy going to the Flint river near Thomaston, GA. There I can wade the whole river and fish for Shoal Bass.  Feisty little fighters. Great fun. 

Do get over to the Outer Banks in North Carolina every now and then.  Great surf fishing.

Never had the chance to fist the Gulf much.  Would be fun I'll bet.

You guys in LA are truly the lucky ones. 
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greenbtree
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« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2013, 11:10:47 PM »

Since moving to Iowa have degenerated to catching chubs with my son's "Tweety Bird" pole ("Mom, can I have my pole back now?" "Just a minute, just let me land this one...")  Catch and release of course, but the little buggers put up a fun little fight! 

As to extracting foundation-less frames, even deeps, just spin them slow at first, turn them and spin them slow again, then you can up the RPMs to finish.  It is the weight of the honey trying to push out from the opposite side that blows out the frames.

JC
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10framer
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« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2013, 12:01:39 AM »

green, i'm planning on buying a 60 frame extractor next season.  i'm wondering if they'll hold up to that kind of abuse.  i'm thinking if i wire them they will.  i'm working more toward getting back to semi-commercial.  this is my early retirement plan along with some other farming.  also, i don't like to feed (even though i'm doing it now) so i don't plan on extracting any deep frames, those will all be for the bees. 
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jmblakeney
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James


« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2013, 04:32:37 PM »

There used to be a man on Youtube that showed step by step directions on how to build all the parts of a hive.  He has now changed them to private vids only.  I asked him to change them back to public because I really liked them.  We'll see if he does or not.

Well he did, yay!

You can find his channel here.

He also has a CD on Ebay that has his plans on it. 
(Not trying to break the rules here.  Mods, if that is feel free to delete that part.  I am in no way connected to him at all.)
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Georgia Boy
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« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2013, 05:51:46 PM »

Hey 10framer,

You should try fishing line instead of wire.  Might do just as well. I just don't like the idea of wire in my foundation plus you have trouble cutting through it if you need to.

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