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Author Topic: Wiring frames.  (Read 1942 times)
RHBee
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« on: February 06, 2013, 04:57:27 AM »

Last year I wired in all my foundations. How many of you do this. I did it only to increase strength.  I found that during inspections the comb can be broken if the frame is mishandled. Diring extraction extra strength is desirable. Is this time consuming step always needed?
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Ray
sawdstmakr
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 05:41:07 AM »

I used to use wax foundations because a lot of what I read said the bees prefer it. Then when I needed a lot of it, my supplier only had plastic. He said that is all he uses for his bees. I tried it and never went back. Bees build on it better, more evenly and it is a whole lot stronger. I only had one fair in an extractor and it turned out that it was broken when I installed it, I figured it would bee fine. It failed in my radial extractor. Don't use broken ones. A big reason for using plastic is time. They snap in the frames in seconds. Just bee sure to let the glue dry over night before installing them.
Jim
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Moots
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« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 08:10:25 AM »

I'm new to all this, and starting with 2 to 3 hives.  I went with wax and wire my frames because I wanted the whole "beekeeping" experience.  Smiley
As with ANYTHING in beekeeping, opinions vary widely, I've heard everything from it's better for the bees, they prefer it, they draw it out better, etc. etc. etc.  To it doesn't matter.

I can certainly see where if your numbers became significant, it would be hard to justify the time investment necessary for wax foundation and wiring.  But for now at least, i wanted to go the more traditional route and I'm glad I did....
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 08:34:10 AM »

In Sweden we wire our frames and melt a wax foundation into the frame using electricity to short out the wires an make them hot so the foundation melts into the wires.

I use this system for my brood frames double deep.

In my supers I use plastic frames that I coat with wax .

Plastic frames make extracting honey easy without comb falling apart because of the g forces of extraction. If the frames are evenly loaded I don't have to turn them the extra third time and can spin them dry at high speed without the extra third turn.

 grin Plastic is fantastic  grin


mvh edward  tongue
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 09:33:43 AM »

>Diring extraction extra strength is desirable.

Comb is strong enough to extract without wires.  They were invented to help keep the foundation from buckling and sagging during the time from when they were put in until the bees drew them.  When I've used wire, I embed them with an electric embedder.

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/WireEmbedder.JPG

I added a few more of the pieces that push the wire down...
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Joe D
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 09:51:29 AM »

Until this year I have been just using half a paint stirring stick as a starter strip.  This year on new hives I am using plastic foundation with wood frames.  Last year with the no foundation frames I had 2 blow outs, they weren't completely filled out.  I liked the no foundation, to try to make it easier on me and the bees I am trying foundation this year.



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kdm
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 07:13:20 PM »

wiring frames for wax foundation also keeps the foundation from bowing and having cells to deep on one side and to shallow  on the other side.
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RHBee
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 01:03:19 AM »

The reason I went with wax foundation instead of plastic was that I read that the bees accept it more easily. I'm using foundation with verticle wires and hooks. My frames have a groved bottom and a wedge top. In the past I was wiring in the "X" style. I'm thinking one wire across the bottom should strengthen the comb enough to compensate for my clumsiness. What do you guys think?
Maybe next year for plastic foundation. This year I just ordered 500 frames and 50lbs of foundation. Looks like "I'm in it to win it" with wax. grin
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 01:14:22 AM by Ray Bayless » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 06:45:40 AM »

The reason I went with wax foundation instead of plastic was that I read that the bees accept it more easily. I'm using foundation with verticle wires and hooks. My frames have a groved bottom and a wedge top. In the past I was wiring in the "X" style. I'm thinking one wire across the bottom should strengthen the comb enough to compensate for my clumsiness. What do you guys think?
Maybe next year for plastic foundation. This year I just ordered 500 frames and 50lbs of foundation. Looks like "I'm in it to win it" with wax. grin

Ray,
I use all mediums, went with the "N" style frames from Kelleys...It's a slotted top that the foundation just slips in. I'm using the wax with vertical wires also, but no hooks.  So our equipment is a little different but really the same setup.
I run two horizontal wires parallel to each other. If you're going to go through the hassle of running wire, I don't see much of a cost/time saving in doing one instead of two.  huh

I think you'd be giving up more than you would be gaining.
Are you installing the two wires individually or as one?

Another less labor intensive option might be to use the support pins instead of wire. I've never tried them, but maybe someone else can give an opinion.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 03:57:28 PM by Moots » Logged

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Jim 134
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2013, 03:42:17 PM »

Ray Bayless.........

   How many hives do you have Huh  and how many hives are you planing to have Huh



             BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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RHBee
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 05:06:43 PM »

Jim 134, Currently I over wintered 6 colonies. I plan to add 12 more for a total of 18. I just ordered 2 Russian queens and plan to rear my replacement Queens in my back yard. There will be 6 or so nucs and 3 breeder hives. I am using 8 frame mediums and feel that each colony will use 5 bodies.
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Ray
Jim 134
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2013, 10:19:00 PM »

I would wiring if I had under 100 hives.If I was going to use plastic I would go to plastic foundation (Pierco) and wooden frames Grooved-Top Bar and Grooved Bottom Bars.




           BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley   
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
RHBee
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2013, 11:35:42 PM »

Jim, I'll buy some of those frames and Pierco foundation and give them a try. I understand spraying them down with HBH mixed with 1:2 increases their acceptance chances
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Ray
sawdstmakr
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2013, 11:45:33 AM »

Ray,
I never spray anything on the plastic foundation and they work it better than the wax. Often times the wax bows to one side or they refuse to build on it and cut it up.
Be carefull using the full plastic frames, the sides have lots of holes that the bees cannot get into and the SHB's love them. If I was given a bunch of them I would take some wax and fill in all of the holes.
Jim
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Jim 134
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2013, 02:57:37 PM »

Hear you go.

http://youtu.be/3pyB64oaHWk



      BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
mulesii
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« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2013, 04:59:04 PM »

I bought a nuc last year with plastic frames.  The bees have not built them out properly and will not touch the areas that they did not originally build out.  The first task on my to do list in the Spring is to cull them and replace with wood frames/wax foundation.  I find it odd when people say that their bees prefer plastic over wax, does not seem intuitive.  I use wired foundation and run two horizontal wires and have yet to have any issues.
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hardwood
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2013, 05:38:58 PM »

They have to have sufficient wax coat on them before the bees will build them out.

dipping foundation.wmv


Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2013, 11:15:31 AM »

Thanks everyone for the exchange of information. I didn't know about dipping the plastic foundations in wax before you offer them to the colony. I guess plastic foundation does away with the need to replace frames when they are black. Just dip the frames in boiling water and voila new foundation. Costs more but is reuseable.
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hardwood
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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2013, 12:57:57 PM »

Most plastic foundation comes pre-waxed. it's up to you yo decide if they put enough of a coat on or not. I find that the ones from Brushy seem to have a good coat.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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