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Author Topic: Dysentery ?  (Read 2037 times)
RC
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« on: February 05, 2013, 06:04:41 PM »

For about 2 weeks now, I've noticed a moderate amount of brown fecal matter on the landing board and several, probably 50 or so, bees crawling around on the ground in front of the hive. All these seem to disappear late in the afternoon, I assume they're making there way back into the hive.
I did an inspection Sunday and all seemed well in the hive. Plenty of brood and food. No mites were found by visual inspection and none on the bottom board. Only a few hive beetles.
We haven't had any winter to speak of this year, the bees have never stopped flying and have brought in pollen all the while.
I've only been at this a year now, so I still don't know much. What would be your thoughts?
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Bush_84
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 06:26:26 PM »

Nosema maybe? 
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AllenF
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 07:55:10 PM »

Treat with the antibiotic Fumidil B
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 09:43:13 AM »

Dysentery comes and goes when bees are confined (and cold will confine them), especially if they are rearing brood when they are confined.  It only has to hit about 40 F or so to keep them in.  Treating with Fumidil will kill live Nosema (but not spores) but will also disrupt the microbes in their gut and make them ore susceptible to Nosema.  Fumidil also causes birth defects in mammals (we are mammals).

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnosema.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#nosema
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0033188
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Michael Bush
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My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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RC
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 11:20:20 AM »

If I do not treat, will the Nosema go away with time? Is there a chance that it will infect the other hives?
I've not used any treatments in my hives, hoping to avoid doing so. Except for HBH, I've used that from time to time.
I'm not entirely against treating, I just haven't seen the need to do so.
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Moots
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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 11:45:50 AM »

If I do not treat, will the Nosema go away with time? Is there a chance that it will infect the other hives?
I've not used any treatments in my hives, hoping to avoid doing so. Except for HBH, I've used that from time to time.
I'm not entirely against treating, I just haven't seen the need to do so.


RC,
Wasn't familiar with your mention of HBH....so I googled it!  (Thank God for google, smartest SOB I know  Smiley)

Anyway, found this on HBH from WVU, looks like they use it to treat Dysentery.  So, if you've already used it and are comfortable with it, it might be worth a shot.

WVU link

On a broader note...What's the general consensus on HBH, I've heard it mentioned in passing, but hadn't really looked into it and don't know much about it.  Do a lot of people use it?  Results???
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 08:17:07 AM by Moots » Logged

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Vance G
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 11:50:32 AM »

Did you hear what Mr. Bush had to say?  Most don't seem to.  He doesn't tell you what to do but he does give valid researched information. 
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RC
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 01:40:53 PM »

I did hear what Mr. Bush had to say.I've read his book and his website. He has my utmost respect. And so do many others that visit this forum. Mr. Bush is in a different situation than I am. He has many hives and years of experience. I don't have either. I started out with 2 nucs last May and grew to 6 through the year. Probably beginner's luck, but I'll take it.
I simply don't want to lose this hive IF they're worth saving. And I don't want them to infect the other hives.
If the Nosema won't move to the others, I won't treat. If there's a chance, I will.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 03:35:28 PM »

>If the Nosema won't move to the others, I won't treat. If there's a chance, I will.

Dysentery is not necessarily Nosema.  If it IS dysentery CAUSED by Nosema, Nosema is spread by spores.  Fumidil will not kill the spores.  But yes, there is a chance Nosema (if it IS Nosema) can spread and it's likely if you use Fumidil you will CONTRIBUTE to it spreading by making the bees more susceptible to Nosema because you wipe out the biofilm in their gut that protects them from it.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
sawdstmakr
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 07:50:31 PM »

RC,
If you can collect 25 of the field bees, freeze them and get them to me, I will put the under the microscope and see if it is Nosema Apis or Cerana or IAPV. I can meet you in Taylor and test them if you want.
Let me know so that I can bring the equipment.
Jim
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RC
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2013, 07:17:52 AM »

Thanks, Jim. PM sent.
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2013, 06:57:16 PM »

RC,
I tested your bees and found what kind of looked like IAPV, Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus, but not quite. I took a picture of it with my I phone and sent it to my friend who is teaching me how to do the testing.
She says it is either KBV, Kasmire Bee Virus or BQCV, Black Queen Cell Virus. Both of them are mid gut viruses so the treatment is the same.

Go to your pharmacy and get a small bottle of 100 Mg B1 tablets. Take one tablet, crush it up and dissolve in a little hot water, when dissolved, add it to one gallon of 1 to 1 sugar water and feed it to your bees.

We recommend that you call your local inspector and see if he can have your bees tested, especially the larva.

I noticed that some of your bees are very small. Are you using very old, black comb? If so, as soon as it warms up, move it up to the super to allow the brood to hatch out and then remove it from the hive. If you have it, replace it with drawn frames.

Jim
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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2013, 05:54:02 PM »

You might have some odd viruses in the colony, but that doesn't mean that they will do much harm to your bees.

As long as all the droppings are on the outside of the hive and not inside there won't be a major problem and the bees can get over it if there are no other adverse factors like pesticide contaminated foods.

My bees excrete bright yellow droppings every year in April /May when dandelion is in flower, and they usually seem to be quite constipated with this. 
Lots of bees will be crawling around on leaves, straining to get rid of their poo, leaving yellow streaks and dots on the foliage and any cars parked in the vicinity.  Undecided
I assume that's because dandelion pollen is hard to digest.

You can alleviate this kind of constipation by feeding a weak sugar solution, usually 1:1.

If you see soiling inside the hive, proceed as described in the previous post.
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