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Author Topic: Was there a truce?  (Read 2392 times)
vmmartin
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« on: February 04, 2013, 11:02:01 PM »

I have not heard of anymore hostilities in the "War on Women".  Was there a truce signed that I did not hear about?
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 11:29:40 PM »

No truce, just and armistice until the Current Occupant needs the issue again to divide, and confuse us.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2013, 02:01:21 PM »

Right....because Republican senators and congressmen really haven't been saying the stupidest things possible about rape, abortion and pregnancy?
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2013, 02:42:43 PM »

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Right....because Republican senators and congressmen really haven't been saying the stupidest things possible about rape, abortion and pregnancy?

i'm pretty sure that the republicans don't have a corner on the market when it comes to stupid things.  pretty sure also that you would not want the entire democrat party judged by the stupid things that come out of the mouths of your folks.....flag on mars, etc.

you know, people do have different opinions about things.  just because you disagree, does not mean that the opinion they have expressed is stupid. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2013, 02:54:27 PM »

Human biology is not a matter of opinion. I fully realize I don't share the opinions of the universe, and I can hear differing opinions without calling someone stupid. But facts are facts. And the stuff I keep hearing come out of male Republican mouths (thankfully, a relative few) is pure stupidity.

I would think most moderate Republicans would want to distance themselves from these guys, not defend them.
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2013, 04:07:12 PM »

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and I can hear differing opinions without calling someone stupid.

no you can't.  you are a liberal.  you can pretend to hear what others say, but because you believe your intentions are the best, your opinion is all that matters to you.  you believe that you have the moral high ground and everyone else and their opinions are trash to be swept up.

just what biology are you talking about, BTW? 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2013, 08:52:09 PM »

Let's look at it this way. When you think you can make people safer by taking their protection away, then advertising that you have done so, I don't think you can get any stupider and still feed yourself.
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 10:37:39 PM »

Tiss tiss now boys and girls. lets play nice or it's time out time Kiss


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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 07:52:55 AM »

If you look at the number of anit-abortion introduced bills from the states, it it massive for the past two years compared to the previous twenty. Most mentioning the "war on women" are describing the bills trying to stop the women from having the individual decision on what happens to her body in regards to abortion. And we have bumbling fools from the right in the last election cycle talking about "rape babies" as if it was the left who "created" this war on women.

It is not some trumped up charge, being brought out for just political gain. It is a real. It is something that is happening.

For women who want to keep control of their own personal decisions in regards to abortion, there most certainly is a war on women being raged.

Sounds as if some got their butts kicked on the issue, and can only complain after the fact. The "right" is going to lose on this issue as long as it is an issue. Women do not want men telling them what they can and can not do. We are not the Taliban. Although in this country some would be more than willing to regulate and control everyone in society if they could impose their religious ideology on others and get away with it.

I wish we could have polticians work on issues of jobs, security, etc. And leave the "abortion" issue as a decision to be made by each women. But they will not.

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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 11:20:20 AM »

Perhaps pro lifers can go after the War on Children!
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 12:11:01 PM »

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For women who want to keep control of their own personal decisions in regards to abortion, there most certainly is a war on women being raged.

there has long been the acceptance of the notion that a womans body is her own.  this is not true and it's about time we took a look at it.

women are designed, by nature or god, to be the carriers of life.  it take a couple of things for that to happen.  1st, you must share you body with another in order to get pregnant.  now i know that there are other ways, but they still involve another person...or two.  
2nd, you must share your body with the new life.

those two things alone put the lie to the "this is my body. i can do as i please".  

i do think that women should be able to control the timing of pregnancy.  this is good for them and for their families.   at the point where they have failed to do that, or circumstances brought on pregnancy, they are no longer the only life to consider.  it is no longer their body.

public opinion is turning away from abortion on demand.  stories like this one yesterday of the woman dying after getting an abortion at 33 week, further turn the public.  that was a baby murdered, not a piece of tissue destroyed.  the woman lost her life for that murder.  
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 01:07:22 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 12:50:17 PM »

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For women who want to keep control of their own personal decisions in regards to abortion, there most certainly is a war on women being raged.

there has long been the acceptance of the notion that a womans body is her own.  this is not true and it's about time we took a look at it.

women are designed, by nature of god, to be the carriers of life.  it take a couple of things for that to happen.  1st, you must share you body with another in order to get pregnant.  now i know that there are other ways, but they still involve another person...or two. 
2nd, you must share your body with the new life.

those to things alone put the lie to the "this is my body. i can do as i please". 

i do think that women should be able to control the timing of pregnancy.  this is good for them and for their families.   at the point where they have failed to do that, or circumstances brought on pregnancy, they are no longer the only life to consider.  it is no longer their body.

public opinion is turning away from abortion on demand.  stories like this one yesterday of the woman dying after getting an abortion at 33 week, further turn the public.  that was a baby murdered, not a piece of tissue destroyed.  the woman lost her life for that murder. 

 goodpost applause applause applause applause  But........ beat a dead horse   Your own good work will be your reward.
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 01:08:33 PM »

before someone dings me.  i corrected my spelling.   grin  my fingers work faster than my brain.  sorry. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 02:10:12 PM »

Are gun laws a war on women? A woman with a gun and good training is probably the best defense against violence and rape. Also very effective gainst carjackings and home invasions against women at home with children.
  Perhaps the current economy has waged a war on women.
Perhaps now the ones waging the true war on women are about to be exposed.
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« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 07:01:45 PM »

And the stuff I keep hearing come out of male Republican mouths (thankfully, a relative few) is pure stupidity.

I would think most moderate Republicans would want to distance themselves from these guys, not defend them.

Good one!  grin

Of course they will defend them, especially if they think the same way. There will be some "moderates" who will disguise their true intentions by focusing on the money factor of abortion. That being that the government should not be paying for abortions, the pill, etc. I probably agree with much of that.

But reality is, the right, to include most of the religious right, will not distance themselves from bumbling idiots campaigning on discussions of "rape babies" and other somewhat questionable stances. They can not distance themselves because deep down they agree with these stances. It is from a religious basis. It can not be "half way".

And yes, as stated by so many on the right, from Glen Beck to Rush and everyone in between, they keep suggesting that the country is turning, while stuffing millions into their pockets from those who want it to be true. But elections do have consequences. Women flee the right everytime one of the anti-abortion talking politicians opens their mouths.

I find it ironic when the side that is against abortion loses an election, then suggests that the majority is on their side. Yes, a majority of immigrants is on your side also. A majority of minorities is on your side also. You keep clicking your heels and saying it enough times, while pointing your fingers at gays, abortion, immigrants, minorities, women, and about every other group....while thinking you are winning.

Do you really think the right is about smaller government? Do you really think that the right will lower the debt? Do you really think they are any better at running the government?

It does not matter whether you said yes or no. Because the true intent of the right is about being moral police, and coming into your home to tell you what to do, just as much as they complain about the left.

For the record, I am actually against abortion. But I do not look to politicians to force my views upon others if they are so elected by my vote. Some things must be decided by each individual. I actually favor the right. But I know as long as they put people who want to talk about rape babies, "praying away gay", and throwing out 20 million immigrants as if none of them have done anything worth considered worthy for our society, I see the right as being on the losing end for the foreseeable future.

Honestly, I wonder if they could, just how self-rightious, and limiting would the right be if they could do everything they would want. As in the case of the prisoners and guards in the study years ago, where the guards took things to the extreme, I also wonder how far the right would go knowing their religious ideology and their willingness to demand for others to abide by their requirements.

But fear not. I do not think that will happen anytime soon. And because the right is more concerned about abortion, gays, and being the moral police, we have an idiot from the left in power. So now we stand back and complain about the country. We stand back and say thing about debt, taxes, unemployment, and security.

But the "right" really wants to talk about gays and abortion. A real shame. And so we have what we have. And we all will suffer for years to come.

Socialists on one side, the moral police on the other. And the country doomed because of it. Each side pointing fingers at each other.

Oh well......... rolleyes
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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2013, 08:31:39 PM »

I say the country should just through out all morals. Legalize cocaine,heroin, pot, driving while drunk. What harm is there in that. Let the people who want to have horses and sheep for husbands and wives have um. If a man wants to have a man for a wife and adopt and raise some kids in an unnatural family situation what the heck does it really matter. I not even going to mention pedophilia Cause I don't know how to spell it.
 Let all them welfare women have babies by men they don't even know their names so what if 80% of black babies are born without a legal daddy. They will be good like they are in Chicago. Or maybe we should teach those women to have abortions., oh I forgot they can't draw the welfare check for the illegitimate baby if he ain't born.
If its alright to kill babies in the womb why is it not alright to kill babies in schools a child is a child is a child. One killed with a gun the other with a vacuum or whatever. And whats really wrong with killing anybody if he is in your way they just will cost the govt. money on Health Care and SS and Medicare down the road.
And what is wrong with stealing someone else's money or cheating him out of it. He prolly gona spend it foolishly any way. So take it away from him and spend it more wisely the way you want. Like Lance did.
This country don't need to bother with foolish things like religious morals much less moral police. Live and let die. It was all done in civilization's past and look how great they became.
And while I'm thinking about why bother with this gun thing when we out grow all these morals we will not need guns cause everybody will love one another and live happily ever after like they did in Rome.
 evil evil evil
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vmmartin
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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2013, 09:00:35 PM »

 pop
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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2013, 09:05:46 PM »

I say the country should just through out all morals. Legalize cocaine,heroin, pot, driving while drunk. What harm is there in that. Let the people who want to have horses and sheep for husbands and wives have um. If a man wants to have a man for a wife and adopt and raise some kids in an unnatural family situation what the heck does it really matter. I not even going to mention pedophilia Cause I don't know how to spell it.
 Let all them welfare women have babies by men they don't even know their names so what if 80% of black babies are born without a legal daddy. They will be good like they are in Chicago. Or maybe we should teach those women to have abortions., oh I forgot they can't draw the welfare check for the illegitimate baby if he ain't born.
If its alright to kill babies in the womb why is it not alright to kill babies in schools a child is a child is a child. One killed with a gun the other with a vacuum or whatever. And whats really wrong with killing anybody if he is in your way they just will cost the govt. money on Health Care and SS and Medicare down the road.
And what is wrong with stealing someone else's money or cheating him out of it. He prolly gona spend it foolishly any way. So take it away from him and spend it more wisely the way you want. Like Lance did.
This country don't need to bother with foolish things like religious morals much less moral police. Live and let die. It was all done in civilization's past and look how great they became.
And while I'm thinking about why bother with this gun thing when we out grow all these morals we will not need guns cause everybody will love one another and live happily ever after like they did in Rome.
 evil evil evil

I'm pretty sure that is what one of the taliban leaders said when someone suggested that perhaps women should be able to walk down the street without a male escort.

 pop
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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2013, 09:44:49 PM »

Pull up a chair, folks. This could get interesting.
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2013, 06:07:06 AM »

Fummy they think killing unborns are okay,but mass murderers should be denied the death penalty.  The biggest problem on the abortion front is taxpayer dollars being used for it , as just an expensive means of birth control. The federal government should not be in the birth control busines or any other part of health care for that matter. Mrdicare and medicaid should have stayed in the states instead of letting the Fed use it to create evrt more power over the citizenry.
 Read the history of the founders of planned parenthood. They should never have gotten tax funds,never,period. People need to know what Planned Parenthood stood for.
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« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2013, 07:09:44 AM »

buzz.....if your logic is about dollars, then denying a mass murderer the death penalty is the cheaper way to go. But that is another topic.

I agree about the dollars part of the discussion. The government should not be in the birth control business. And I suppose state control would be better also. But these type points are really about steps in the outright banning of abortion if you really talk the truth. These are side issues that are disguised attempts by many in total elimination of abortions. As you say..."the biggest part of abortion" is acknowledging that you have other problems also. But you pick the easiest to rationalize first.

Abortion is like gun control. If you talk about any part of it, the other side realizes that complete banning is the ultimate goal. So any discussion of banning late term abortion, not paying for it, and defunding planning parenthood, are seen as steps that many would take in the complete banning of abortion. Throw in guys talking about forcing rape victims to carry to term, and it solidifies these positions. It's like the gun control crowd knowing that banning 50 cal is just the first step, but ultimately, banning all guns is the real goal. So it is seen with abortion also.

So commonsense in the middle is thrown out, and the extreme sides of most issues carry the day.

I don't think that abortions should be paid for with my taxes. But I also do not have an issue with something more for young people other than "purity rings" and calls for abstinence expecting folks to be virgins when they marry in their twenties.

The problem is, even if you did not use tax dollars in any area of abortions, there would still be those so obsessed with what others do, that just another part of the issue would become the battle. Stop late term abortion, then stop earlier abortions would be the battle cry. Stop abortions, then try to stop teens from having sex. Then if you can not stop sex, send away girls in shame till they have the baby out of sight as in the old days. Just how long would it be before we are just the modern day equivalent of the Taliban?

Every so often, we get glimpses of how far do gooders would go if allowed. Like banning alcohol. We tried that. But in the end, a happy middle ground is probably best. But any common ground will never be achieved in abortion, guns, and other issues to include smoking pot, when some are driven by religious ideology, and forcing their views upon others as they rationalize that as their duty and calling.

It is interesting how many call for the stoppage of tax dollars used in areas of society they are against. And how many think government should not be controlling of religion. But how many of the same think THEIR religion should be part of politics. I wish religion could be checked at the door of politics.

Most folks are against abortion. But most folks also do not think they should dictate what a women does with her body. And I question those that go around pointing fingers at others telling them what they should do. But I guess for some, especially the religious, they are doing their calling. I am glad I have way too many other things to do than be obsessed with making a 17 year old have a baby after what some would call a sin, or force a rape victim to carry to term.
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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2013, 10:52:06 AM »

I am glad I have way too many other things to do than be obsessed with making a 17 year old have a baby after what some would call a sin, or force a rape victim to carry to term.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Abortion is murder.....period.

With that being said, don't ask me to help pay for it and don't try to convince me or my children it's ok. But, if you do it, I will still love you and that is a decision that you will have to answer before GOD. 


Steve
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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2013, 04:07:49 PM »

When you think about, the idea of a rape victim being forced to give birth to the baby is perfectly consistent with most "pro-life" folks. The argument is that abortion takes a life. Is a life worth something less if it is the result of a rape? Does the unborn child, which was the result of a rape, have any less rights than an unborn child that is the result of a happy marriage?

My problem with the abortion argument is the lack of logical consistency.

Here's what I mean -

Let's say that a pregnant woman decides she wants to have an abortion. Our law says that she's within her rights to kill the baby. Now, let's say that the pregnant woman is murdered on her way to the abortion clinic. The murderer can be charged with two counts of murder - one for the woman, and one for the unborn baby.

So, even though the woman was on her way to kill the unborn baby, and it was going to be legal, it suddenly becomes illegal because of who did the killing. The outcome for the baby is still the same.

Either it's murder or its not. Who does the killing shouldn't matter.
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« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2013, 04:44:01 PM »

Just because abortion is legal does not make it right. Legal or not, abortion is murder. Rape is a terrible thing to happen to a woman but does it give her the right to kill the unborn baby?


Steve
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« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2013, 05:00:07 PM »

Quote
Let's say that a pregnant woman decides she wants to have an abortion. Our law says that she's within her rights to kill the baby. Now, let's say that the pregnant woman is murdered on her way to the abortion clinic. The murderer can be charged with two counts of murder - one for the woman, and one for the unborn baby.

depends on where it happens.  different laws in different places.

i don't think that the circumstances of conception can make a difference in the right or wrong of abortion.  if it's wrong, it's wrong.  the one exception that i MIGHT consider is if the life of the mother is in danger.  in that case, and it would be a rare case, you might make the exception for the sake of the family. 

we wonder why we raise kids who do not respect life.  what's to wonder about when we have brought up a couple of generations teaching them that life is important only if it's convenient.
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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2013, 05:28:03 PM »

Very well said Kathy. Thank you.


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« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2013, 06:53:14 PM »

Hmm,
Last time I checked,abortion was not a guaranteed right in the Constitution. Guns for the people to protect themselves from a tyrannical government was.
Planned parenthood was started as a genocidal organization.we need not fund that. Staes have the ability to legislate abortion within their own borders.
Judicial activism made it a federal agenda.
Their was not really a seperation of church and state. More activism there. It reads no "law " shall be passed endorsing a particular religion,or laws passed to restrict the practice of religion. They forget about the second part.  A manger scene in public square is not forced their by any government, it usually goes there by community tradition. When a very few are offended by the majority of the communities traditions,it seem the majority always loses. this is why America is losing touch with its traditions and values. We are actually losing touch with any sense of anything that is not politically correct.
 Are you aware that less than 1 percent of abortions are performed due to rape and incest? Does this make any difference? Probably not for those that want to do it for gender reasons or birth control.
And good point that it's not a life form in terms of abortion but is if a mother is killed at the hands of another.
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« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2013, 06:57:13 PM »

And as far as convicted repeat murderers,the expense does not have to be that great.Injections are cheap.So is hanging. After they have their day in court,we do not need to keep them for thirty years.
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« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2013, 07:24:21 PM »

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And as far as convicted repeat murderers,the expense does not have to be that great.Injections are cheap.So is hanging. After they have their day in court,we do not need to keep them for thirty years.

yup
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« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2013, 07:28:05 PM »

Yes, but.........only with absolute proof of guilt. No one should be executed on circumstantial evidence.



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« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2013, 11:52:25 PM »

i agree.  technology has improved and it needs to be applied.  evidence needs another look and this is a good start.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

but, once you have verified the evidence, fry them....on high heat.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2013, 07:29:42 AM »

If abortions where performed with an assault weapons, would it then be wrong?

If liberals were truly pro-choice and not really just pro-abortion (which they hate being called),  they would be just as vocal promoting women carrying guns to protect themselves from being raped, and pro school vouchers so that women can send their kids to the schools they see best.  Oh but wait,  if you get to choose the school, we can't control the curriculum and indoctrination.
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« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2013, 06:50:44 PM »

When abortion comes up, I keep inviting people to take in 5-10 unwanted children. It is so, so, SO easy to argue against abortion and then turn a blind eye to the 100s of 1000s of unwanted children who don't have much of a chance in life. I am seeing this very up close and personal right now, so I feel strongly about this, and not just hypothetically.

Ideally, people would control their own fertility in a way that only wanted children were born. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world.
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« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2013, 06:53:24 PM »

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and I can hear differing opinions without calling someone stupid.

no you can't.  you are a liberal.  you can pretend to hear what others say, but because you believe your intentions are the best, your opinion is all that matters to you.  you believe that you have the moral high ground and everyone else and their opinions are trash to be swept up.

just what biology are you talking about, BTW?  
And how is this different from your response to people who disagree with you?

I can acknowledge people's opinions about abortion and access to birth control. I disagree, but I can see why others feel the way they do.

When someone opines that rape CANNOT produce pregnancy, that's completely untrue, I will call them stupid, and I feel no need to try to see the world the way they do.


ETA: As I keep repeating over and over and over, I am married to a conservative, my parents are conservative, most of the people I love are politically conservative. You do not know me. So please don't tell me that I "pretend" to hear what others say. Perhaps most of the conservative commentary on here is so offensive and abrasive that it's harder to listen to than the people I normally talk to.
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« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2013, 08:20:19 PM »

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When someone opines that rape CANNOT produce pregnancy, that's completely untrue, I will call them stupid, and I feel no need to try to see the world the way they do.

no one said that.  what he said is that you are less apt to become pregnant by way of rape.  this was a commonly held belief even among medial people years ago.  not surprising that he thought that at his age.  it's right up there with semi automatic weapons shooting down planes and flags on mars.

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When abortion comes up, I keep inviting people to take in 5-10 unwanted children. It is so, so, SO easy to argue against abortion and then turn a blind eye to the 100s of 1000s of unwanted children who don't have much of a chance in life. I am seeing this very up close and personal right now, so I feel strongly about this, and not just hypothetically.

i'm not sure why you think unwanted children justifies murder.  if it's because some of those kids will end up criminals or on drugs, lets wait and just kill the ones who do.  that way you preserve the ones who turn out to be good citizens and get rid of the ones you were worried about.  you have accomplished your goal and hopefully killed fewer.

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So please don't tell me that I "pretend" to hear what others say. Perhaps most of the conservative commentary on here is so offensive and abrasive that it's harder to listen to than the people I normally talk to.

i am not married to you and i am not your family.  i am not required to engage in PC conversations so that i don't offend you and have to fix my own dinner for the next month.  smiley





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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2013, 08:38:30 PM »

Thankfully, my husband is not SO conservative that he can't fix his own meals, marital discord or not.

It gets hard to keep track of which Republican said which crazy thing, but one of them was on a committee for health! Okay, looked it up--Akin, and on the House Science Committee. That's actually terrifying. An elected official with medieval beliefs about rape and fertility, on a committee you'd like to think is based on modern knowledge.

I don't think unwanted children justifies murder. I think both scenarios are appalling. Just one does far less damage. You want to talk about the children who go on to live a life of crime. What about those who don't commit crimes but suffer every day of their lives? Ahhh, forget it. It's an argument with no end. I won't convince you, you won't convince me. What a waste of time. I never, ever get anyone who will tell me what to do with all the unwanted children. They're apparently just too hypothetical.

As for crime, in Freakonomics, one interesting find was a huge drop in the crime rate approximately 18 years after abortion was legalized.

ETA: Here's what Akin actually said, “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down." I only know of one person in my family's life who admitted to being raped. She was a missionary in a foreign country, most likely a virgin at the time, and she got pregnant by her rapist. She left her missionary work to raise the child alone, for which I give her tremendous credit.
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« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2013, 08:56:54 PM »

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Okay, looked it up--Akin, and on the Hous

but he didn't say you couldn't get pregnant from rape.  he said it was rare.  this was a commonly held position and it is still a truth, but not because rape doesn't produce pregnancy.  only because the odds of being raped at the right time are slim.

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What about those who don't commit crimes but suffer every day of their lives

and what about those who don't...or wouldn't?
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“If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."

the part of the statement that got him into trouble was the legitimate rape part.  i know exactly what he meant and so did everyone who heard it. 

this is the way of the left.  when one of theirs says something stupid, they excuse it.  when a conservative says something...not even stupid, but which can be twisted to fit their needs, they are all over it.  you say you lose track of which republican said which crazy thing, but i'd be willing to bet that if you make lists of stupid comments, the list for the left would be far longer....but hey, as long as they  mean well....it's all good.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2013, 08:58:12 PM »

and why would you think that one's level of conservatism would have something to do with cooking ability.  i'm not sure if that's sexist...or just fits into the crazy comment catagory.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2013, 09:10:07 PM »

“If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."
the part of the statement that got him into trouble was the legitimate rape part.  i know exactly what he meant and so did everyone who heard it.  

this is the way of the left.  when one of theirs says something stupid, they excuse it.  when a conservative says something...not even stupid, but which can be twisted to fit their needs, they are all over it.  you say you lose track of which republican said which crazy thing, but i'd be willing to bet that if you make lists of stupid comments, the list for the left would be far longer....but hey, as long as they  mean well....it's all good.
Obviously not.

You said:  "i am not required to engage in PC conversations so that i don't offend you and have to fix my own dinner for the next month."
Not sure who's being sexist here. But I am glad to be married to a man who can cook.
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« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2013, 09:13:26 PM »

Take a look at the thread I just posted and you "might" see why the left's way isn't working in the eyes of the world.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,40141.0.html
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« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2013, 09:24:18 PM »

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Obviously not.

of course they did.  they chose to take it and make a big thing of it.  what do you think would have happened if a liberal had said that?  50 bra burners would have come out in his defense waving a dozen examples.

we all know women, and i have one in my family, who have claimed rape and there was none.  in the case of the one i know, she claimed rape to explain the pregnancy.  you could hardy call that a legitimate rape even though, in the past, the bra burners have claimed that women don't lie about these things.

there is a different standard that you are held to.  you are held to basically no standard, while we are held to a high standard.  some of that we do to ourselves, most of it is done be a leftist press and lying libs.  just think about all the gaffs by your president and his VP.  then think about stuff that republicans get dinged for.  you would have to be checked out or intellectually dishonest not to have noticed.
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« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2013, 09:26:26 PM »

http://www.zimbio.com/Congresswoman+Sheila+Jackson+Lee/articles/31/Breaking+News+Exhaustive+Search+NASA+Archives

you probably missed this because of your info sources.  this was a gem.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2013, 09:31:34 PM »

I'm genuinely not here to contest every gaffe on either side. I genuinely have no idea how you could read what Akin said and defend it. Or even explain it. I hope anybody--D, R, conserv., liberal--would be taken to task if they were an elected official on the Science Committee and claimed that female bodies have a way of preventing pregnancy when raped, as a defense against any possible need for abortion.

No, I haven't noticed. On the other hand, I don't have a TV so miss Fox AND MSNBC. I listen to public radio, and while I suspect some of the hosts have chosen political sides, they at least present multiple sides of every issue discussed.

If you think the media is so liberal, maybe you think it happened recently or perhaps you've forgotten the crucifying of Clinton, Kerry, Gore. Or maybe we just don't tend to notice as much when the other guy is getting slandered.

And, no, I don't know women who have claimed rape when there was none. I certainly hope you're not accusing our pastor acquaintance of lying about the rape that forced her to leave her missionary work.
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« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2013, 09:33:20 PM »

Take a look at the thread I just posted and you "might" see why the left's way isn't working in the eyes of the world.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,40141.0.html

On another less conservative forum, iddee, Canadians, Aussies and others think America is absolutely nutso for the level of religiosity in our government (not in our people, necessarily, but the govt) and gun rights. It's all a matter of which foreigner you speak to, apparently.
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« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2013, 10:06:37 PM »

Less conservative?? It must be a million miles less conservative to think like that. When a kid can be suspended from public school for saying "God bless you" when another kid sneezes, I don't think there is enough "religiosity" in government. None, or Neutral would be the right amount, but it has dropped below that here.
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« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2013, 10:12:26 PM »

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On another less conservative forum, iddee, Canadians, Aussies and others think America is absolutely nutso for the level of religiosity in our government (not in our people, necessarily, but the govt) and gun rights. It's all a matter of which foreigner you speak to, apparently.

and we want so very much to be like them!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2013, 10:17:36 PM »

Less conservative?? It must be a million miles less conservative to think like that. When a kid can be suspended from public school for saying "God bless you" when another kid sneezes, I don't think there is enough "religiosity" in government. None, or Neutral would be the right amount, but it has dropped below that here.
My kids still say Pledge of Allegiance every morning, including the word God in it. I hope they're giving thanks for their meals at school, and I'd defend their right to do so if they were challenged. We take them out of school openly for church functions and get no flack from teachers. I guess I'm not seeing it around here. That said, the teachers have no business preaching to my kids. I'll decide on their religious education at home, and I hope the teachers will teach them academics.

I'm sure people can find extreme examples of religious intolerance, but I just don't see it. For Pete's sake, the holiday program still talks about Christmas.
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« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2013, 10:29:27 PM »

It is so, so, SO easy to argue against abortion and then turn a blind eye to the 100s of 1000s of unwanted children who don't have much of a chance in life. I am seeing this very up close and personal right now, so I feel strongly about this, and not just hypothetically.

So, instead of giving people at least a shot at a decent life, we should just kill them outright and not even give them the chance?

There are many examples of people pulling themselves up out of abject poverty to become something great... and many, many more of people doing it and at least becoming productive members of society.

Dr. Benjamin Carson (who has become a bit of a celebrity in conservative circles after essentially denouncing some of Obama's plans directly in front of him at the National Prayer Breakfast) grew up in poverty without a father... and he's now one of the most accomplished pediatric neurosurgeons in the world.

Granted, that's just one example... but who knows what kind of life you're snuffing out when you have an abortion. The next Einstein? The next Hendrix? The next Patton? Sure, maybe the next drug-addled criminal... but many on the left have a huge problem with killing those types of people once they're adults (and have actually committed a heinous crime). So, why is it so easy to do so when they're innocent babies?

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Ideally, people would control their own fertility in a way that only wanted children were born. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world.

Agreed.
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« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2013, 10:38:37 PM »

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We take them out of school openly for church functions and get no flack from teachers.

if you lived in england, you could not do that.

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Granted, that's just one example... but who knows what kind of life you're snuffing out when you have an abortion. The next Einstein? The next Hendrix? The next Patton? Sure, maybe the next drug-addled criminal... but many on the left have a huge problem with killing those types of people once they're adults (and have actually committed a heinous crime). So, why is it so easy to do so when they're innocent babies?

they don't know the history.  it never was about making better lives, it was always about controlling undesirables.  sterilization, abortion, eugenics....all part of the same movement. 
now....before our liberal friends knock their teeth out with than knee jerk...no, i'm not saying that there is anything wrong with preventing pregnancy.  i'm just pointing out that it never was about womens rights.  it was about the purity of society.

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