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Author Topic: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.  (Read 1024 times)

Offline RHBee

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Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« on: February 04, 2013, 08:02:52 AM »
Can the genetic lineage of our bees be identified by their color? If it can does any know where there is some documentation covering this subject or is there a general rule of thumb.
Later,
Ray

Offline little john

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 08:14:47 AM »
Certainly colour is one criterion used in Carniolan breeding (together with wing morphology etc) :

http://www.carniolan.com/uk/caracter-uk.htm

http://www.kranjska-cebela.si/En/kranjska_cebela.php

http://apis-mellifera-carnica.eu/Authentic%20Apis%20mellifera%20carnica%20Our%20Breeding%20program.html

The last link actually shows the colour indices they use.

LJ

Offline edward

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 08:58:24 AM »
NO!

Wing index maybee but not by color to bee certain

mvh edward  :-P

Offline deknow

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 09:18:53 AM »
In the drone you can.  Drones, being haploid (like a sperm rather than like a fertilized egg) are direct expressions of the sperm they carry (all the sperm a given drone produces is identical to all the other sperm that same drone produces).  Since there is only one set of chromosomes, there is no interplay between dominant and recessive....what you see (in a drone) is what you get.

deknow

Offline little john

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 10:43:08 AM »
NO!

Wing index maybee but not by color to bee certain

mvh edward  :-P

Quote
From: Journal of Central European Agriculture Vol 11 (2010) No 4

SELECTION CRITERIA IN AN APIARY OF CARNIOLAN HONEY BEE (APIS MELLIFERA CARNICA) COLONIES FOR QUEEN REARING, Gregorc and Lokar

Selection and breeding of the indigenous Carniolan bee, Apis mellifera carnica, is a beekeeping priority and practice in Slovenia. The first step in selection, as defined by breeding programme, is race confirmation using morphological and behavioural observations. Morphological analyses can include cubital index (Ci) calculations, the colouration of abdominal segments and non stinging behaviour as important characteristics.

Of course, if you say "NO!" - then perhaps I should bring your advanced knowledge of bee breeding to their attention ?

LJ

Offline Finski

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2013, 02:55:36 PM »
.

To see good quality by habitus. -  What I know, the Miss Universe Competition is the only where I can see the procuction of honey by eyes.

But nowadays, who knows who is  made by genes and who by knife.

Picture from 1963.....(50 y ago)

.
Language barrier NOT included

Offline Finski

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2013, 03:02:01 PM »
.
Race is not so important than strains. There several "human made" races and hybrids.

I have had tens of Italian bee strains during 40 years.  And you have in your 10 hive yard hives from edge to edge.


And mixing different races and strains you get hives, which you cannot handle. Nothing to do with color.
.
Language barrier NOT included

Offline RHBee

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2013, 05:59:38 PM »
NO!

Wing index maybee but not by color to bee certain

mvh edward  :-P
What is meant by the term wing indexing? Is that the set of the wings when relaxed?
Later,
Ray

Offline edward

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2013, 06:50:17 PM »
NO! Wing index maybee but not by color to bee certain
Of course, if you say "NO!" - then perhaps I should bring your advanced knowledge of bee breeding to their attention ?

I am in the starting end of a learning curve and can only  :-X burp  :-X up what I have learnt so far  :-X

BUT I have had hives that have changed colour in mid season with the same queen laying. They started light yellow and ended up dark as night, same number marked and wing clipped queen the whole time.

The queen breeding group I participate in at present time is not interested in measuring the wing index, or counting the hairs on the legs of the bees.
This being said we do not scoff at those that take the time to "NERD" themselves in these issues and we gladly reap the benefits of there labors and in  some cases pay them handsomely for there labours that stretch 40years back in time or more.

Reflecting over the great amount work that goes into pedigree and family trees of "queen breeding" or the "breeding of drones" the queens one can buy are sold at bargain price  ;)


mvh edward  :-P
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 07:08:36 PM by edward »

Offline edward

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2013, 07:04:44 PM »
What is meant by the term wing indexing? Is that the set of the wings when relaxed?

If you look a the wing of a bee it is divided in small triangles and diamond shapes, depending on the size, shape and angels one can determine the race of the bee.


At this time in my beekeeping I am more interested in healthy,productive, kind, workable  :bee: fun bees  :bee:

But who know what the future holds.  :-D

I have a dormant pedigree queen breeding Island 3miles from my house and may try to start things up again with the help of the Swedish buckfast breeding club in the next few years.

:bee: More fun with bees  :bee:

mvh edward  :-P

Offline RHBee

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2013, 08:42:26 PM »
Edward,  What do I Google?  Wing set,  honeybee? @
Later,
Ray

Offline edward

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2013, 10:39:56 PM »
In swedish its called " vingindex "

I did a quick google and used the internation interpitator into english tell me if it works, some time newances are lost
http://translate.google.se/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biodlarforening.se%2Fvingindex.html&act=url


BEE in swedish = BI BIN BINA  biraser = bee race,species
mvh edward  :-P

Offline edward

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Re: Identifying honeybee genetics by color.
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2013, 10:53:32 PM »
Edward,  What do I Google?  Wing set,  honeybee? @

I think the right English terminology is " Morphology bee " try googling it


mvh edward  :-P

one link http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/morphometry.html