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Author Topic: Beekeeping in Poland  (Read 9098 times)
Polish_beekeeper
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« on: January 22, 2013, 03:35:36 PM »

If you have any question about beekeeping in Poland you can ask me. I have apiary in Poland about 9 years and i can tell some things about polish bees, apiary and beekeepers.

 
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Vance G
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2013, 05:20:25 PM »

Thanks for the invititation to your knowledge.  I have seen eastern europeans uncapping frames at harvest with a heated vee shaped stationary knife that the frames are passed over to cut off the cappings.  Is this a common device?  What do you use?
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AllenF
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 07:19:04 PM »

I would like to hear about the differences between how we keep bees here in the States verses beekeeping methods in Poland. 
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Polish_beekeeper
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 04:32:54 AM »

I have small apiary (18 hives), so I usually uncapping using "apiaries fork". I can't paste photos.
but in big apiaries (80-500) beekeepers using vee shaped stationary knife.This knife is heated be means of steam.
Of course big apiary using also automatic line to uncapping frames but steam knife is most popular.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 04:42:59 AM by Polish_beekeeper » Logged

Polish_beekeeper
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 04:40:20 AM »

I would like to hear about the differences between how we keep bees here in the States verses beekeeping methods in Poland. 

i dont know how you keep bees in USA. I start learning yours methods. Until I dont learn i cant compare yours and ours method, so better ask me about a particular thing. But in Poland we dont have so big apiary like you. The biggest apiary have circa 4000 hives, but the average size of apiary in Poland is 25 hives. Only 2% beekeepers living from beekeeping. 98% apiaries are hobbyist or allow a little extra money like my apiary;) On autumn i wants to have 35 hives Wink. I already have equipment. In may i have to make new bee family.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 04:54:02 AM by Polish_beekeeper » Logged

edward
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 04:52:34 AM »

but in big apiaries (80-500) beekeepers using vee shaped stationary knife.This knife is heated be means of steam.

Do they build it themselves or can you buy one from a beekeeping store?

Is there a recommended angel of the V ?

mvh edward  tongue
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AllenF
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 04:06:19 PM »

Most apiaries here are hobbyist also.   If fact we on average don't make much to any money with bees.  
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edward
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 05:14:12 PM »

 grin but its a lot of fun  grin



mvh edward  tongue
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AllenF
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 06:26:00 PM »

That is why we do it.   
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Polish_beekeeper
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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 05:22:14 PM »

but in big apiaries (80-500) beekeepers using vee shaped stationary knife.This knife is heated be means of steam.

Do they build it themselves or can you buy one from a beekeeping store?

Is there a recommended angel of the V ?

mvh edward  tongue

Yes its recommended. We can buy those knife in beekeeping store, but some beekeepers make yourself  this knife. Price in beekeeping store is about 1100 PLN (~350$).
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edward
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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 06:41:37 PM »

Yes its recommended. We can buy those knife in beekeeping store,  Price in beekeeping store is about 1100 PLN (~350$).

Do you have any links to any suppliers you can recommend?

mvh edward  tongue
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Vance G
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« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 07:11:36 PM »

What are the demensions of your bee boxes?  Is there a standard size most beekeepers use?  What are your main honey plants and yield?  How long is your season?  That should be enough to start quite a discussion.
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Polish_beekeeper
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2013, 04:42:31 PM »

edward I have links but i can't paste, because i'm new user. I dont know how many posts i must write to be able to paste links and photos.
The most popular frame dimension is "Wielkopolska" frame 360mmx260mm (i have it), but in Poland we have also  Dadant and Langstroth frames and several other like 3/4 langstroth, "warszawska" frame 240x435 and "warszawska poszerzana" frame 300x435.
My main honey plants are: maple, dandelion, apple tree, acacia, meadow flowers, fir and leaf honeydew and the best linden. Around my apiary is a lot of small organic farms and mixed forest (mostly beeches, oaks, lindens, firs, spruces). But popular Polish honey are also buckwheat honey, rape honey, heather honey (highest price).
My season start in March (stimulating pollen cake) and last job in my apiary i finished in October (treatment for varroa). But bees gather honey from last week April to second week July in my apiary.
I usually do 3 honey harvest (last week of May, third week of June, and third week of Jule).
I feed them with sugar for winter to mid-September. Average 13 kg sugar per one hive. I make sugar syrop (3 parts sugar and 2 parts water).
The most popular bees in Polans is Apis mellifera Carnica and her races but increasingly popular is Buckfast.
We testing Primorska, Elgon, Macedonian bees (partially varroa resistant).
Becoming more popular is the small cell.
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Vance G
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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2013, 09:39:40 PM »

Do you run the EPE boxes (styrofoam) that I see used in videos from Germany and Finland?  I thank you for the look at your world.  I live on what you might know as the steppe.  My bees are at 5000 feet altitude and we get about 12 inches of rain per year.   That water includes what we get in five feet of snow.  My spring bloom starts with dandelions and occaisional fruit trees by peoples homes.  Caragana or russian pea tree is a shrub that has a lot of nectar for colony buildup  along with a small wild cherry shrub.  The main honeyflow comes from Alfalfa, sweet clover and sanfoin, all legumes.  Wildflowers are a minor source for my bees.   I too will start feeding pollen substitute in early March.  The honey first real nectar for the bees won't be until mid April but pollen is available later from some trees.   My latitude is 47-30-11 North.  Summer temperature can reach 110 F but low 90's are considered hot days.  I have seen -48 F but that is rare with most winters not going much below -35 and those cold temperatures do not linger normally.  Day time highs this time of year average around freezing.   Periodically we benefit from downslope heating where hard winds crossing the Rocky Mountain continental dive undergo compression heating and temperatures can and do swing eighty degrees F literally overnight.  This is good as bees get flight days for cleansing fairly often during the cold part of the winter.    I run my bees in Langstroth equipment in full and what you referred to as 3/4 size.  My bees are carniolan/Italian crosses. 
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Polish_beekeeper
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2013, 06:09:45 AM »

Thanks for this post Vance G. Yes I use styrofoam in my hives. Wall in hive consist of 1cm wood slat - 3 cm styrofoam - 1cm wood slat inside. I have also hives made only from hard styrofoam, but in those hives you must hibernate bees in winter another way. Because styrofoam don't pass moisture. In poland almost all have "warm" (wood+styrofoam) hives. I heard about one board hives like yours, but i never testing in my apiary, but i know big beekeeper in Poland who have hives like yours. I have concerns that the bees can't withstand winter. But in your area in winter temperature somedays is colder like for me. In Poland in winter temperature is maintange in the range  -4 to 23 F from December to and of February. Maybe few days are colder -31F to -13 F, and warmer 32F to 40 F, but bees cant fly in this time. Last flying day is late November and first late February or beginning March. From March to start April half days are below 50 F and bees cant fly. In Summer temperature is maintange in the range 70-90 F. But somedays can increase to 100 F. Temperature fluctuate are max 30 degrees but when are warm mountains wind (in poland we have Tatry mountain) can increase 50 degrees.
Are you warming somehow hives in the spring, so to speed up the growth? How bottoms you use (full or with grid)? And what you have over frames? (foil or wooden plate i can't name this otherwise in English Wink.
How you do new bee families? In Poland we don't use packet like you, but we make new families taking 3 frames with bees and larvae and 2 with honey and bees. And put beequeen in cage. This small family we are making in the and of May and June. 
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Polish_beekeeper
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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2013, 06:35:47 AM »

oh i can paste links.
This is knife to honey harvest:
http://www.lyson.com.pl/p3029699_stol-do-odsklepiania-nakladkowy-z-nozem-parowym-1500mm--ostrowskiej.html
My apiaries fork:
http://www.lyson.com.pl/p3028895_odsklepiacz-widelcowy-profilowany-z-raczka-drewniana.html
My Styrofoam hives:
http://www.lyson.com.pl/p3028351_ul-wielkopolski-z-dennica-wysoka.html
Wood hives like mine:
http://allegro.pl/ule-wielkopolskie-drewniane-pszczoly-ul-pasieka-i2815853233.html
New small bee family in Poland:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3HLZmwnynk
And Gallery in my page (my small apiary, my and my bees Wink another photos):
http://www.gorskie-miody.pl/galeria/


Now it will be easier to explain Wink
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 06:48:36 AM by Polish_beekeeper » Logged

tefer2
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2013, 09:10:16 AM »

Great job on the pictures and the video.  th_thumbsupup
I like your web. page too. Thanks for sharing.
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Polish_beekeeper
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2013, 09:41:25 AM »

thx tefer2. If you have any question about me or polish beekeeping you can ask me  grin
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Vance G
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2013, 12:57:26 PM »

Well Sir, it seems our climate has much in common!  I have often wished I had the styrofoam boxes to try.  For most of the year my bees must devote a lot of energy to maintaining temperature, not cooling the hive.  For My location I do not believe in the screened bottoms in hives.  They are encouraged so vorroa mites that fall off bees don't easily find a new host to climb on.  That may be an advantage, but the bees need to be able to keep the temperature in their home warm enough to raise brood.

I wrap my wooden hives with a wrap of a flexible styrofoam cloth covered with a black plastic.   Before I wrap, I place a 3" deep shallow box on top of the upper hive body.  It will be used for spring feeding.   I place a cover of a pressed wood fiber material that is porous as an inner cover and place a 2" styrofoam cover on top.  I seal the wrapping to that cover to help hold in the rising heat.  I drill a hole in the front center of the top hive body for ventilation of excess moisture and an entrance in much the same position as shown in the picture of your styrofoam boxes.  This all sound so very primative compared to your system!

 Of course, your system would only be neccessary for a small number of the beekeepers here in America.  Most of our country is warm enough in the winter that these measures are not neccessary.  The bees indeed stay toasty warm in my methold and brood up early in the spring, especially when I start putting feed in the shallow box I put on in the fall.  The wrapping is secured to it and on still days, one can quickly add feed or check the bees without chilling them.

 I have queens ordered and in the last half of April I will take frames of brood and honey and pollen stores and add a caged queen to form what we call a nucleus colony or 'nuc'.  I use one of my hive bodies with a screened bottom divided into three compartments with the entrances on three sides of the box to provide for each nuc and entrance.  I place these three nucs on top of a strong overwintered colony so they share its heat.  I feed protein suppliment patties I buy and soft candy made by heating sugar and water.

 When the nucs outgrow the three frames of room, I move them to a similiar box with two compartments and five frames.  When they have filled that, I move them to full sized box and they can be expected to produce at least a small surplus over the two deep hive bodies they will need to winter themselves.

 That is how it is supposed to go.  As a beekeeper, you know that does not always work out, but enough do to make up winter losses and you have a few to sell if you want.  Thanks for posting the links they were very interesting.  The uncapping system is what I was talking about except much more elaborate than I would need.  I think I will just have the knife with a steam line attached fabricated at a metalworker make a wooden frame for it myself.   I have used a capping scratcher like yours to extract honey and found two long knives in a pail of heated water more to my liking.  How do you deal with all the small particles of wax in the honey that your scratcher causes?    Vance
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 02:09:07 PM by Vance G » Logged
tefer2
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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2013, 01:27:21 PM »

Paragraphs please Vance, I get lost so easy!   grin
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Vance G
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« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2013, 02:12:16 PM »

What does a bilingual man, who has an advanced beehive system superior to anything sold here; need with paragraphs?  He's obviously just out slumming anyway. 

Are you smart enough to post on a forum in Poland?  I thought not!

Me neither and that is why we need paragraphs!
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tefer2
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« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2013, 02:22:14 PM »

Thanks Vance, that helps my old eyes.
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Polish_beekeeper
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« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2013, 02:22:26 PM »

You have many work with warming bees in spring, but Styrofoam is not so great like you thinking. Its has two problem - dont pass moisture and its susceptible to damage. Therefore i prefer hives consisting of wood and styrofoam like this (other dimensions, of course, but the principle of construction, such as in the link):
http://www.pszczelarz.republika.pl/Obraz%20005.jpg
this is better photos and pictures almost like me woody hives:
http://www.atpszczoly.pl/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ul-wielkopolski-standard.jpg
I don't have problem with small particles of wax. I use double strainer:
http://www.lyson.com.pl/zdjecia/foto/4007.jpg
How do you fight in USA  with varroa? In Poland we evaporate amitraz (four times every four days in August and one time in November when in hives is no brood). We  used baywarol but doesn't work. I don't use acids to killing varroa.  I heard about Hopguard in the USA. Are you testing its? I've heard that it is very effective.
How you fight with other diseases like AFB? Whether it is a problem? Have you problem with CCD? Nosema cerane?
You write about  protein suppliment what you mean? You buy pollen or substitutes? Have you link about this products?
Are you produced your own bee queens or you buy all?
How many honey can you take with one bee family in last year? In 2011 I took average 28 kg but in 2012 only 15 kg. Do you traveling with hives or hold your hives in one place?
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« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2013, 02:52:04 PM »

Gorskie, I found the research in Avinionie on ccd and pesticides very interesting.
Who would have thought to place microchips(RFID) onto honey bees to track them.
Do you have a link you can post on that study?
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Polish_beekeeper
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« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2013, 03:08:46 PM »

Here is link:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0030023
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Vance G
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« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2013, 03:20:21 PM »

I understand that styrofoam is easily damaged and that you can have moisture buildup problems.  If I did not have an entrance close to the top of my wooden hives that are wrapped in plastic, I would have water problems too.  The region I live in is very dry and I think that the styrofoam hives would work well here.  There are some that have them north of me in Canada and they manage well with them.  They think that the added heat results in more brood and more vorroa mites.

Yes!  Mites are the worst problem we have here.  I have no personal experience with hopguard which was only released last season.  Some think it worked well, but others believe it was hard on the bees or didn't work all that well.  I used a product called Apiguard this fall.  I had tried controlling the mites with non chemical means and found in late August that I had high mite populations.  I think the product worked because all of colonies treated are still large clusters.  

What many beekeepers use very successfully is oxalic acid in a sugar syrup drizzled on the cluster when the bees are broodless.  It is all the treatment many find neccessary if they can catch the bees with no brood.  I am sure one of the people who post here by the name of Finski who I think is from Sweden can tell you about it in detail.   Apparently one needs to carefully follow directions with it.  He also uses styrofoam equipment.  You may benefit more from talking to him than with me.

I plan to feed a pollen substitute that has 15% Pollen in it.  It is irradiated to kill any disease spores.   I have fed other pollen substitutes and mix in lemon grass oil which makes it very attractive to the bees and gets them to eat it better.  

The AFB here is largely immune to tetracycline antibiotic.  I bought equipment from an old man quitting beekeeping and the equipment was saturated with the disease.  All the nucs I made using the equipment were infected with AFB.  I am in the process of salvaging the wax to make candles and burning the rest.  A commercial beekeeper told me to just admit I have AFB and start using an antibiotic called Tylosin which apparently will clean up the AFB in between one and three dustings with the chemical mixed in powdered sugar.

As far as yields, that depends on the sun and the rain and the bees God gives us.  Last year was a drought and most did not make enough to feed themselves this winter.  I already have dry sugar on top of bees for when they reach the top of the box.  Last year I got eighty pounds per colony surplus.  Long ago in a better place to keep bees six hundred miles from here, I averaged probably 160 pounds per colony.  I think the average for the state of Montana where I live is around fifty pounds, but commercial beekeepers in this area have gotten many times that in an exceptional year.  It all depends on rainfall and your bees population when the flowers are here.  Great talking with you.  I hope I answered all your questions.  
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Vance G
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« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2013, 03:32:48 PM »

http://globalpatties.com/  This is one contact on pollen substitute

http://www.latshawapiaries.com/  This is a noteworthy bee breeder and nutritionist.
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Polish_beekeeper
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« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2013, 04:21:39 PM »

Vance G. Great talking with you too Wink
I heard about apiguard but i never used this product on my bees.
In Poland we use too oxalic acid but in November when is no brood in colony oxalic acid stimulated bees and there are problem in winter.  More often in UE scientists write about bad effects of acid on bees.

This is our recepture:

1 liter water
1 kg sugar
85 gram oxalic acid
100 ml 50%V/V alcohol with 5% propolys 
10 gram citric acid
10 drops of eucalyptus oil
10 drops of thyme oil
10 drops of anise oil

You can use this one time for 2 months - 5ml on one alley between two frames. Best in period without brood. This is like Bee Vital Heave Clean.

Hives made from Styrofoam have better start on spring than wood hives (about 1-2 weeks faster). This is true, but price of such a hive in Poland is higher by 50% and therefore I have more and more wood around house;), which are cheaper and more durable.
But in this year i want testing and wintering very strong families in August i want  combine normal family with nuc (made in may with young queen). Old beekeeper said me about that made bee family give me two times more honey like normal. I must watching this Wink.
I bought 8 years ago equipment from an old man too. And i had the same problem like you. I used oxytetracyclie with sulfonamide. But now we cant used in Poland antibiotics to fight with AFB. Remained breaking the law in difficult situations Wink. But luckily illness omit  my bees.
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« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2013, 09:24:06 PM »

What can you tell us about your use of amitraz for varroa control. Your method for delivery is very different from here in the USA.
 Is it under the brand name of Apivar in Poland?
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« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2013, 09:17:11 AM »

My method is similar like Apiwarol in Poland. But apiwarol is more expensive.
I buy Tactic 12,5% and I use varomor like Ukrainian but I made it myself. This is link for Ukrainian varomor:
http://medkarpat.com/?p=27
and video from Ukraina:
обрабатываю от клеща

This method is very fast and nice Wink
Recepture on fluid for 80 hives:
92 cm3 kerosene or paraffin oil
8 cm3 taktic (1cm3 of clean amitraz)
Varormor is calibrated on 1.2 cm3 of liquid, evaporated to the hive when you press. One press on one hives.
Evaporated amitraz on one hives is 12 mg like in Polish Apiwarol. But this method is very cheep, faster and very effective.
I use Varromor after the last honey harvest. Four times every four days. To close varoa cycle(1- day 0, 2- day 4, 3- day 8, 4- day 12). All Varoa come out at that time with the young bees. In this time I killed about 90-95% varroa. And last time in October or November when in hive is no brood I use once. In this time I kill all varroa. Maybe can stay max 5 varroa in hive. And I have stillness to the next year. Of course you can use varomor one time when is no brood in hive but when is small infection of varroa (1-300 pieces in October). Of course you must evaporated when all bees are in hives (evening) and when temperature is above 10 Celsius (50 F).
You need 10-15 second to one hive Wink That is very fast method and relations are used less amitraz. You can lie on the bottom of the sheet greased with oil and count after two hours, the amount of varroa. And you know how many was in hive.
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« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2013, 12:31:53 PM »

Hi!
I am a beekeeper in Romania.
My question is whether you pay taxes on beekeeping? (How much?) Receive a subsidy from the government for beekeeping?
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« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2013, 10:00:04 AM »

i dont pay taxes on beekeeping. In Poland you must have more like 80 hives to pay taxes. If you belong to the Polish beekeeping organization you can get the part of money to buy equipment. But by this grant (since 2004) prices of "bees equipment" went up strongly. And in principle you must pay this money like earlier. Only the federal government to use money;). Sorry for this but European money destroyed healthy competition of bee equipment companies. for example Apivarl (warroa medicine) before subsidies cost 15 polish zloty. Now when is in Majority free for Beekeepers associated cost 60 polish zloty. The same medicine produced by the same polish company in Ukraine  cost 15 polish zloty. So its the same problem with other things. Easy money always create pathology.
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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2013, 03:05:20 PM »

Thanks for answer! Best regards!
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« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2013, 09:53:19 AM »

Polish Beek,

Thanks for sharing. I like the angled roofs, are those supers ? American, "Varomor"  :

Controling Varroa Mites in Bee Hives, Naturally


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Drew
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« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2013, 12:03:32 PM »

i dont know about this roofs. I paste first video from Youtube about Varromor Wink. Yes this Amercan Varomor works in a similar way. I had the same in my apiary. But they was no precision. So i was made my varomor like in video in Youtube. And now it works ideal.
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« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2013, 03:26:11 PM »

.
You propably have a good brood break in Poland. Why you do not use Oxalic trickling?

That oil gazification seems to be in early autumn because feeding boxes were on.  It is time of thymol or formic acid.

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kampie
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« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2013, 05:32:11 PM »

I'm looking for "checkmite strips", supposedly a very good remedy for warroa? Where can I buy it?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2013, 02:47:59 PM »

>"checkmite strips"

They are very ineffective here now due to resistance.  They are very deadly to bees and humans, and they cause residues in the wax that have ill effects on queen fertility and longevity as well as drone fertility and longevity.  They are an organophosphate, a class of insecticides that were outlawed here in the US because they are too deadly to humans, and it was allowed only as an emergency measure for Varroa.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
kampie
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« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2013, 04:54:02 AM »

Thank you for your answer. What do you use inside the Varroa? Is it possible to buy a pure substance coumpahos?
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gplizga
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« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2014, 05:43:20 PM »

My husband and I are planning on visiting Poland mid October and we are looking to visit apiaries, can you recommend contacts for us please? We will arrive in Warszawa and start from there.
Thank you
Galina Plizga
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