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Author Topic: Early queen rearing  (Read 3999 times)
beesnweeds
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« on: January 21, 2013, 09:32:56 PM »

Will rearing queens early increase the chances of a virgin queen mating with drones from an overwintered hive?  How many weeks on average does it take for a package to start raising drones?
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2013, 10:13:48 PM »

It depends on your location and you are hopelessly lost.   Sad
If you are here in Florida, then the answer is yes. Most places north of here your new queen would be hard pressed to find drones and may end up being a drone layer.

For a package to start raising drones, it would have to get strong enough to be producing excess honey. Which probably won't be until the fall.
Why the concern about drones with a package. Do you have a new package that is producing a lot of drones?
First of all most packages come with drones, they are from strong hives. If on the other hand you are seeing lots of drone brood being pulled out of the hive of a newly packaged hive, this would indicate that you have lost your queen or she never mated.
Jim
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"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain
beesnweeds
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 09:31:23 AM »

I'm in the northeast and want to increase the chances that new queens that I rear from my overwintered hives mate with others that have overwintered.  I was thinking maybe it would be better to rear queens early to try and avoid them mating with shipped in packages.  But if they already have drones in them its probably unavoidable .
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Jim 134
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 10:40:38 AM »

I see you are still hopelessly lost  rolleyes


    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2013, 11:44:22 AM »

I'm in the northeast and want to increase the chances that new queens that I rear from my overwintered hives mate with others that have overwintered.  I was thinking maybe it would be better to rear queens early to try and avoid them mating with shipped in packages.  But if they already have drones in them its probably unavoidable .
The queen never mates in the hive. She goes out of her way to travel further than her own drones will travel to keep from being inbred.
If by Northeast you mean NE USA, you probably do not have any drones. Remember this site is world wide. Please update your location so that we can provide information to your specific area.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 12:04:03 PM by sawdstmakr » Logged

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain
edward
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 11:50:02 AM »

They also need warm weather to fly to there mating place usually 20oC

mvh edward  tongue
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beesnweeds
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 04:00:05 PM »

Sorry I'm in NY, USA.  I understand that queens don't mate in hives or over the winter.  If you rear queens in early spring will it better your chances of having queens mate with drones from overwintered hives?
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edward
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2013, 04:06:14 PM »

Do package bees have drones in them?

Are overwintered drone still viable and probable candidate for successful mateting in the spring?

mvh edward  tongue
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beesnweeds
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 04:41:43 PM »

Do package bees have drones in them?

Are overwintered drone still viable and probable candidate for successful mateting in the spring?

mvh edward  tongue
LOL!!.... I'm asking about overwintered hives that have produced drones in the spring. I think I may have chosen the wrong forum to ask my question. I thought there were more expienced beekeepers on here than myself. But, thank you for the replies!
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tefer2
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2013, 04:53:33 PM »

OMG shocked
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 06:57:11 PM by tefer2 » Logged
Vance G
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2013, 05:14:58 PM »

Possibly you did not recognize the answers.  When the drone larvae in your colonies have purple eyes, you may be assured that overwntered hives in your area also have drones at that stage.  If you start queens then, they with their shorter developemental period will find sexually mature drones to mate with in your area.  That time of year, the weather is always problematic and queens have a very short shelf life and must mate during a short time when they are both ready and able.  A week of snow and rain can mean your queens will be shooters of blanks--drone layers.   That is the most serious downside of early mating to achieve your genetic preferences. 

The strong overwintered colonies that will be producing  drones in your areas will be far more numerous  than those from packages unless you are in the middle of commercial beeks flooding your area with packages.  Now if bees from the south are trucked in to large commercial yards in your area, they will drown out the local overwintered genome.  At least they do where I am.

Hopefully I have adequately fleshed out the previous answers for your questions.   Good luck.
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edward
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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2013, 07:35:41 PM »

LOL right back at you  rolleyes

Every queen breeder know that the real job is in the drones.

And as you seem to think highly of your self and so little of others I´ll assume that you already have put your drone frames in the hives that you want to use as a breeding bank before you gave them there winter food stores last fall.

This means that the frames are already in place for the spring build up.

Also if you want to have successful matings you will need lots of drones of high quality, to achieve this they will need and abundance of nursing bees and also an ample supply of pollen and nectar early in the season.
To achieve this you will have to feed them early and keep feeding them until there is an abundance of nectar and pollen coming into the hive with out failure.


edward  tongue
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edward
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2013, 07:43:38 PM »

Also why would a new package of bees with a new queen waste time and energy making a bunch of drones?
Since you are so much smarter than the rest of us explain this.  rolleyes

Also if your packages contain drones on arrival I would seriously think about changing your supplier.

edward  tongue
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VolunteerK9
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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2013, 07:50:59 PM »

I'm not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I still can't understand the question.

If you are queen rearing in South Georgia or Florida maybe..

My hives evict all their drones prior to winter and haven't overwintered any-so rearing any queens without any available drones would be pointless.
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edward
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« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2013, 08:31:04 PM »

Virgin queens are simple to make any time in the year as long as you have eggs.

To mate a virgin queen you need several days with good weather with a temperature of +20oC

For a drone to be sexually active you need 24days from egg to the drone hatches + 14-20 days for it to mature sexually

Let me help you out, 24days+(14-20days)= 38-44days

38 days in warm hot summer weather
44 days in miserable but favorable spring weather.

What to do now?

Decide when you will have multiple days with +20oC and start counting backwards, some may need a calender to help them with this  I dunno this is how you will get the date when you must have your drone comb in your hive.

Also this requires that you have all ready made drone comb, but all us smart people already know this an made a bunch of it last year already  Brian butt kick Brian

mvh edward  tongue
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edward
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2013, 04:56:36 PM »

I think I may have chosen the wrong forum to ask my question. I thought there were more expienced beekeepers on here than myself.

In my mind Beemaster.com is a great place to meet beekeepers from all over and the pooled knowledge comes from all the knowledgeable beekeepers that participate freely without getting payed for there selfless participation.

The level of knowledge might have sunk a bit at the time you logged on but usually it is full of helpful inspiring beekeepers  rolleyes

mvh edward  tongue
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Jim 134
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 09:14:31 PM »

When the drone larvae in your colonies have purple eyes.  You can start
RAISING NEW QUEENS CELLS.




      BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Daniel Y
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 08:38:23 AM »

Since an overwintered hive is more capable of producing drones. I would say that the chances of early drones  being form overwintered hives is higher. How much higher I don't know. I don't think you need to be concerned with drones form packages due to it taking much longer for them to get up to speed.

Finally you may increase the rate that queens mate with drones from over wintered hives by producing them early. but you will still have a queen that mates with a dozen or more drones. that you will end up with a wide variety of genetic traits in your colony is guaranteed. In a nut shell I consider concern for traits other than a mated queen when they are open mated is the same as turning your dog loose in the neighborhood in the hopes of getting a pure bred. It could happen but why bother thinking about it.

A lot of beekeepers say that mutts are their best bees also.
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deknow
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2013, 09:02:56 AM »

1. The packages we see around here are not shaken through an excluder...there are drones in the packages.

2.  If it is the overwintered local feral population you are hoping to get drones from, they will probably produce drones later than the overwintered kept bees (package genetics?) that are fed in early spring.

deknow
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edward
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2013, 06:03:06 PM »

I make my own packet bees by harvesting bees from my suppers when I harvest honey.

Its the easiest way and even easier beecause I have a queen excluder on my hives. This also makes it easy to harvest young bees to put into small mating nucs, taking young bees from the supers means I always get the right age and lots of young bees.

mvh edward  tongue
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