Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
April 16, 2014, 12:37:02 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: New York Times' Ethicist on beekeeping vs allergic neighbors  (Read 3955 times)
Moots
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1454


Location: Gonzales LA (Southeastern Louisiana)


« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2013, 09:37:15 AM »

1.  We no nothing about the beekeepers experience, skill level, or general ability to get along with others.

Much like we know nothing about the family that moved in next door....Their ability to listen to reason or get along with others.

2.  In Boston, we've had people come in from neighboring states, setup warre hives in the city as a business...the cheap price being due to the fact that they won't have to come into town and check the bees often...after all, they are in a warre hive.  When this issue (and my comments about swarming) made it back to the warre list, almost universally, the members there objected to any objection to bees swarming in the city.  In short, not all beekeepers are knowledgeable, not all are smart, not all are responsible.

I'll stipulate to the fact that not all beekeepers are knowledgeable, smart and responsible.
Much like not all parents, not all drivers, not all neighbors, not all dog owners, not all gun owners, not all "fill in the blank with your choice"....are knowledgeable, smart and responsible.  Such is life!


3.  If a beekeeper is quoted in the paper, or makes a statement to a judge or mediator along the lines of, "yes, I have bees on my property, but that doesn't impact the neighbors chances of getting stung", they will lose all credibility.

Maybe so....But I would think he could attempt to educate people and say something along the lines of...While it may significantly increase the chances of seeing a bee in the area, it doesn't necessarily "significantly" impact the chances of getting stung.

Personally, I believe this to be a true statement, if people choose not to believe it, I'm not sure that's the beekeepers fault.


4.  Last spring we got some packages that were "lousy with virgins"...whole installed packages swarmed off the first day.  Some of our neighbors have swimming pools (and I know the bees visit them).

Your bees as well as others I'm sure...I have two neighbors with pools and have seen plenty of bees at both in the past with no knowledge of there being any hives anywhere in the area and certain knowledge of none being close by.  Worth noting, I never saw or heard of anyone getting stung by any of these bees.

5.  Although I'm not aware of any of our neighbors getting stung, we have had people stung during inspections who were further from the hive being opened than the property line.

6.  I think everyone should use whatever protection they feel comfortable with...but I've been in lots of beeyards with Michael Bush, and if he's in a bee yard where hives are being opened, he is the first to put on a veil.  This isn't a criticism, but an observation that even he knows that once hives are opened the chance of stinging goes way up...we have a big (multifamily) house on a not so big lot...we have hives within a couple of feet of the property lines.

In point 5 you say people have been stung during an inspection while being further away then the property line, in point 6 you say you have hives within "feet" of the property line.  So I'm not sure that happening should really surprise anyone.  I think we can all agree to stipulate that bees do not recognize and honor "property lines".

deknow

My 2¢ in Maroon
Jeff
Logged

"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan
Moots
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1454


Location: Gonzales LA (Southeastern Louisiana)


« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2013, 09:45:05 AM »

I agree with Dean's & JP's position. I had new neighbors move in with 3 small children and even though they didn't ask me too and we are on acre lots in a semi-rural area, I moved all but a few hives off my place.

Bees have their bad days.


Don

Don,
I'm very new to this and have plenty to learn...So, not trying to sound like a Smart-"fill in the blank"....But an honest question:

If you feel that way and think it can be a true problem, why not move all the hives?
Logged

"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions."
                                                                                                                   - Ronald Reagan
D Semple
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 475

Location: Overland Park, Kansas


« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2013, 01:31:26 PM »

Don,
I'm very new to this and have plenty to learn...So, not trying to sound like a Smart-"fill in the blank"....But an honest question:

If you feel that way and think it can be a true problem, why not move all the hives?

Fair question, I probably should but haven't yet because:

1st - We are big gardeners and that's why we got into bees to start with.
2nd - To minimize the risk and for convenience all I keep at home are a few colonies recovering from recent cutouts or nucs that I want to watch closely. Once they get up and start growing and get stronger I move them out. It's the big strong hives that get defensive, especially in crowded bee yards during a dearth.
3rd - We have an acre and half lot, and all my neighbors including the new neighbors with small children like the bees for their gardens and the honey we supply them. If I had a neighbor that objected stongly I would move them.
4th - Following JP's advice I've moved them 120' from the adjoining property line.


Don

Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13466


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2013, 01:43:34 PM »

Bees, like dogs and other animals, vary greatly in temperament.  Ethical beekeepers should certainly keep that in mind and do their best to insure that they requeen any that are not gentle, and if they are aggressive, move them until they have been requeened and returned to gentle.  The same as when a dog gets aggressive.  I think if you have bees in town, you should already have a contingency plan as what to do if they are acting up.  If a hive gets vicious you don't want to spend a week finding a new place for them.  Have it lined up ahead of time.

Yes, I always wear a veil and I always recommend one when opening a hive.  Those of you who don't use one, will someday be educated by the bees.  It may take years, or weeks, but they will get around to it... Wink
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
deknow
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 726


Location: Massachusetts


WWW
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2013, 01:59:59 PM »

For the record, please note that I'm not saying that one should necessarily move (or not move) the hives.  At our previous address, when we first got bees, the first thing that happened was a neighbor complaining to the health dept.  We did not have to move the bees, the neighbor complained about everything, so it wasn't a real issue.

I just think it's important that if you are going to start a dialog, that you not start it with any version of "you won't get stung".  We are talking about bees...there is always a possibility of getting stung, and that possibility goes up when you are near a hive that is being opened.  When someone is stung (even if you are not sure it was a bee, or even your bee), you will be the one saying, "oh, my dog doesn't bite...really he doesn't" after someone is bit....you simply will never win that one.

deknow
Logged
edward
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1180


Location: BÖNAN SWEDEN

FEED ME HONEY or I`ll smash your screen !


« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2013, 06:28:09 PM »

Some interesting new points,

I myself always wear a full beesuit, don't like being stung and cant bee bother to light the smoker.

Also I have kind workable bees, of the kindest I have a few at home, I have been frowend upon buy some of my neigbords the years I didn't have any hives at home  grin
Also I have a few beeyard that I can place problem hives.

2014-2015 I am going to get 30 new neighbors 15 meters from my property line  angry I will not bee moving my hives at all !
You guy might have your second amendment  Jerry but there is no way I going to give up my hives  hissy fit They can get stuffed whip

That being said I try to keep my hives responsibly and wont bee opening them when the neighbors are having a barbecue party in there garden, also I give the neighbors I can see from my house a jar of honey for Christmas.

mvh edward  tongue
Logged
deknow
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 726


Location: Massachusetts


WWW
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2013, 07:15:29 PM »

I myself always wear a full beesuit, don't like being stung and cant bee bother to light the smoker.
....well, I'm sure that decreases the chances of your neighbors getting stung tongue

deknow
Logged
edward
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1180


Location: BÖNAN SWEDEN

FEED ME HONEY or I`ll smash your screen !


« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2013, 07:19:49 PM »

I myself always wear a full beesuit, don't like being stung and cant bee bother to light the smoker.
....well, I'm sure that decreases the chances of your neighbors getting stung

I think you mised the part I wrote " Also I have kind workable bees, of the kindest I have a few at home "

mvh edward  tongue
Logged
ScooterTrash
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 80


Location: Roswell, GA

ScooterTrash Forever


WWW
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2013, 07:47:25 PM »

Assume the risk new neighbor & keep the Epipen Rx up to date as they do become less effective over time. I rode a bicycle without a helmet, rode in the back of pick trucks, caught fireflies at night, served my country for many years & frankly not giving up any more rights; they’ll will have to be torn from me. Not one bit of PC here
Logged

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.

www.VPBEES.com
deknow
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 726


Location: Massachusetts


WWW
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2013, 08:17:23 PM »

I think you mised the part I wrote " Also I have kind workable bees, of the kindest I have a few at home "
mvh edward  tongue
...I saw that...what I read was "so workable that I always wear a full bee suit".
I always figure that a little smoke keeps the bees calm for me and for others in the area....no smoke and a full bee suit seems like a recipe for angry off bees (and a beekeeper who isn't motivated to keep the bees as calm as possible...because he is wearing a full bee suit).

I can just imagine....you are inspecting a hive, wearing the full suit...the bees get a bit testy....you keep working the bees until you hear a scream from next door, "I've been stung!  Help!  I'm allergic".  So you run over (still in your full bee suit) and tell the panicking neighbor, family, paramedics (if there is a real allergy issue), "nope, it wasn't one of my bees that stung her...excuse me, I have to go close up my hive." Smiley

Edward, please take the above in good humor...I'm not accusing you of anything, I don't know the details of where you live,  I just think there are generally better ways to deal with neighbors....and I'm having a little fun Smiley

deknow
Logged
DLMKA
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 39

Location: East Peoria, IL


« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2013, 09:00:22 PM »

I'd like to know what kind of person everyone thinks would even consider moving their family so close to danger, knowing their severe allergic conditions?


Amen!   I would think a responsible parent would move to a place that is safe for their children.  But then again personal responsibility is a thing of the past.  Now it is always someone else's fault.



When I got into beekeeping last spring our neighbor threw a $hit fit and went out and got her kids epipens claiming a severe allergy and went to far as to make a big stink at the school about it too.  Even despite this "severe allergy" she allowed both kids to walk barefoot in the grass including in our yard which got sown in white dutch clover and was a fantastic bee magnet.  I asked her on many occasions why she let the girls walk barefoot where there was a high risk of stepping on a bee and she replied that she couldn't control her kids and whether they wore shoes or not.  I found it completely irresponsible that she would allow that if there was a risk of death from bee stings.  It'd be like giving a kid with a peanut allergy a peanut butter sandwich.  Honestly, at that point I knew she was lying to me about the bee allergy but I can't really argue with a prescription for an epi pen. Instead, I found a bee yard about a mile away and overseeded my entire yard in white dutch clover and planted bee friendly plants everywhere I could.
Logged
DLMKA
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 39

Location: East Peoria, IL


« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2013, 09:18:35 PM »

I will make a note that I have enclosed a stud section of my shed and made a nice bee entrance with the hope of enticing a swarm to set up shop in my shed walls.  I may not be able to "keep" bees in a hive in my yard but if a feral colony sets up shop in the walls of my shed there is nothing they can do.
Logged
edward
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1180


Location: BÖNAN SWEDEN

FEED ME HONEY or I`ll smash your screen !


« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2013, 02:39:05 AM »

Even despite this "severe allergy" she allowed both kids to walk barefoot in the grass including in our yard which got sown in white dutch clover and was a fantastic bee magnet.  I asked her on many occasions why she let the girls walk barefoot where there was a high risk of stepping on a bee and she replied that she couldn't control her kids and whether they wore shoes or not.

 lau lau lau lau

Why the  evil should I have to raise my kids, let some one else do it, its not my problem  rolleyes

Well what can you say about this?  DARWINISUM

Some people shouldn't breed and pollute the gene pool, not much of a loss for humanity if 1 or 2 are taken before there time  grin

mvh edward  tongue
Logged
edward
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1180


Location: BÖNAN SWEDEN

FEED ME HONEY or I`ll smash your screen !


« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2013, 03:39:15 AM »

"so workable that I always wear a full bee suit".I always figure that a little smoke keeps the bees calm for me and for others in the area....no smoke and a full bee suit seems like a recipe for angry off bees (and a beekeeper who isn't motivated to keep the bees as calm as possible...because he is wearing a full bee suit).I'm having a little fun :)deknow

 grin Yes Ive noticed that you like a good argument grin

At present time I'm running about 70 hives and hopefully will have 100+ at the end of this season.

Last year I thing they got me good about seven times most of them were not my hives or my bees, they were when I helped my mentor with his bees, His bees are OK but I wouldn't have them in my bee yards!

My bees must bee calm bees , There are nice good fun bees so why settle for angry ones?? WHY ?

I don't want angry bees, I want bees that you can approach the hive with out suiting up, at least for 15 minutes you should be able to spend time in a bee yard with out being challenged buy a guard bee.
With my bees you/I can walk stand sit 1 meter behind and 3 meters in front of the hive without protective gear.

I don't work my hives in bad weather, this I have learnt the hard way  Cry , I Don't want to develop allergies to bee stings, beekeeping brings me great pleasure and I don't want to risk having to give it up because of to many stings and an allergic reaction.

Last year was the first year that i didn't have a mild reaction from bee stings, so I guess and hope that I am acclimatized, but also one sting closer to being allergic, it only takes 1 sting or 1001 stings you never know.
When I work my hives its work, why would I not I use the right tools and safety measures and equipment, I am not self-confidence and trying to compensate some short coming by pretending to bee tough and not using the right gear.

One of my goals as a beekeeper/and representative from the local beekeeping club is to pollinate the entire town and gardens and provide everyone with local honey from there area, not from some god forsaken part of china!  angel

bee To do this I need good kind bees.  bee  Why settle for second best!

mvh edward  tongue


Logged
Nature Coast Beek
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 124


Location: Florida, Nature Coast

Suck it up, buttercup!


WWW
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2013, 07:26:25 AM »

Trust, but verify...then act accordingly.

Ownership of property (all kinds) has its responsibilities. Oh, BTW, GOOD FENCES MAKE GOOD NEIGHBORS. I keep B's in a greenbelted hood full of busy bodies. I didn't announce that I am a beekeeper either (Yes, I am within legal rights to keep B's here, even though it is a deed restricted hood). Also, there have been a lot of hives being stolen throughout the country (guess those almonds make people RICH!  rolleyes ) so I wouldn't/don't announce any of my beekeeping activities at large. Out of sight, out of mind. It's amazing what people can accomplish when others don't know it's happening...all "ethically", of coursed...  angel

disclaimer
MY .02
Logged

lazy shooter
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49

Location: W Texas


« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2013, 09:19:35 AM »

I have to agree with Nature Coast on one point.  Don't talk about your bees with neighbors.  Just keep on keeping on, as the lawyers say.
Logged
D Semple
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 475

Location: Overland Park, Kansas


« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2013, 09:33:52 AM »

I have to agree with Nature Coast on one point.  Don't talk about your bees with neighbors.  Just keep on keeping on, as the lawyers say.

Maybe we are just more neighborly here in Kansas, but I follow just the oppisite advice.

I approached all my adjoining neighbors before ever moving bees in and got their support up front.

Same with my bee yards, I make a point to meet everybody within a half mile before bees are moved in.

Lots of benifits being up front.


Don
Logged
Nature Coast Beek
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 124


Location: Florida, Nature Coast

Suck it up, buttercup!


WWW
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2013, 10:03:12 AM »

Yes, yes, of course, all us "heathen"s outside the Midwest...

If I'm within my legal rights to keep B's, why would I okay that through neighbor? I didn't do that with my dog (which on occasion barks and "disturbs" neighbors). If a person was "allergic", just like my post, I'd trust them and then ask for a doctor's note stating that the person was severely allergic to HONEY BEE venom, then act accordingly.

I also think that good judgement should be exercised. In close quarters (backyard) limiting hives is sensible. In no world am I going to open myself up to a neighbor's yay or nay in regards to engaging in any legal activity. Note, that's much different than working with your neighbors if there's a problem.



Logged

lazy shooter
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49

Location: W Texas


« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2013, 10:47:14 AM »

I think some of you missed my point.  My point is my business is my business.  I am not deceiving my neighbors by not telling them about my bees, or how much money I make, or what I invest in or ...................

If my neighbors see my bees (they won't see  mine without trespassing) and ask about them, I will be more than willing to answer all questions.  I have a couple of extra bee jackets and would give my neighbors a tour of my two apiaries. 

I just don't walk up to others and say, I'm a petroleum engineer, oil is very high and I make a lot of money, I have a ranch and there are cattle and bees on it.
Logged
ScooterTrash
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 80


Location: Roswell, GA

ScooterTrash Forever


WWW
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2013, 12:02:16 PM »

My neighbors have a pool and obviuosly the bees sometimes venture over to the pool, bought my neighbors a couple bug zapper tennis rackets; issue mitigated that was my version and extent of PC.
Logged

I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.

www.VPBEES.com
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.818 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page March 18, 2014, 01:46:13 AM