Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
December 18, 2014, 04:58:53 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Up up and away  (Read 3576 times)
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« on: January 17, 2013, 03:58:42 PM »

Has any bee keepers noticed that Wall Street has been streaking higher since Obama got re-elected?  You don’t suppose there’s any chance they might know a little more about economics than bee keepers? 

General market is up about 6% in the 3 months since the election.  The automakers are up over 20%.

It’s OK to admit when you are wrong and Obama was right.
Logged
Keith13
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1817


Location: Baton Rouge, LA


« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2013, 04:14:33 PM »

my guess would be they are ready for the "free" money that is coming. I may be wrong but the market is falsy inflated right now and flush with funny money. The reality is coming i'm sure.  The real indicator might be the cost of gold.

Keith
Logged
Fox Creek
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 568

Location: Pollock Pines Ca.


« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2013, 04:26:23 PM »

Is it possible the market is up in spite of Obama? Could it be, if Obama gets out of the way, the economy would be booming?
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2013, 04:39:00 PM »

 i skimmed through some articles to find one that i thought you might understand.  don't take that the wrong way, but i figured you needed something really basic or you wouldn't have asked.  this is so basic that it misses some stuff, but you'll get the idea.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllenF
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 8186

Location: Hiram, Georgia


« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2013, 05:33:54 PM »

Inflation.  They are beating the curve.  With millions of new dollars being printed every month. 
Logged
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2013, 06:08:14 PM »

Has any bee keepers noticed that Wall Street has been streaking higher since Obama got re-elected?  You don’t suppose there’s any chance they might know a little more about economics than bee keepers? 


Why the general diss on all beekeepers? Takes big balls to crap on those you come and visit every day.

So who is "they" you speak of? I know I am one of the "they". I am invested in the market. Glad it is up. Not much more than it was 10 years ago, but I guess that is another story


General market is up about 6% in the 3 months since the election.  The automakers are up over 20%.
 


Markets go up, and markets go down. To bad not everyone makes money as the market changes. Some are just trying to survive. But go ahead, especially for beekeepers out there....crap on them some more!

However.......two things I would hold from investing in with any amount of money you want to keep...airlines, and auto stocks.

Of course to point out that up 20% over a short period, and starting from about near nothing, that 20% is like bragging you increased your wealth 100% this year after losing 95 cents of your last dollar then finding a nickle, and bragging you doubled your money.  rolleyes

It’s OK to admit when you are wrong and Obama was right.


This is what you are hanging your hat on?  laugh  I recently asked what the left can be so proud about, (gas prices, unemplyment, etc.) and now you hang your hat on this. That is rich!

Right about what? Just the auto industry? Or should we consider all the money thrown at other hand picked companies, that went under?

Give it some time. They got a nice boost from the president. But the same model remains that made it a bust to begin with. Just don't tell that to the stock owners that got crapped on and lost everything when the president did what he did.

Only a true liberal could come out now and brag about auto stock prices, after so many got nothing for owning that same stock just not too long ago.

Go ahead. Put your blinder on. rationalize away. Slice and dice as you will. I gave you what you wanted. Have fun. Call us beekeepers idiots, morons, and kooks.
Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2013, 06:26:48 PM »

his attachment to the auto bailout is amusing.  never mind that the tax payers lost billions and the original investors were illegally screwed out of their money...

the stock market  is not an indicator of the health of the economy.  it used to be a leading indicator of what business thought the economy would do, but now it's a leading indicator of what business thinks the fed will do. 

as long as the fed pumps, business rides on the illusion of good cash flow.  eventually, inflation and devaluation, overtakes the cash flow and it all comes down.  business know this.  the real way to measure what is going on is to look at expansion and hiring.    if companies are expanding they have real faith in the future.  if they are not, and are just banking money against the future, you know they see the end coming.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
pawallinsr
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 20

Location: Spencertown, NY & Eastern Shore, VA


« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2013, 07:11:49 PM »

Way to go Bluebee, stir them up why don't you.
Logged

Peter
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2013, 07:21:25 PM »

They need a good stirring up every once in a while  Smiley  Keeps them from sinking to the bottom  grin
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2013, 07:23:47 PM »

LOL.  I didn’t think the conservatives would ever admit they were wrong and Obama was right. laugh  

Inflation has averaged well under 3% since Obama took over and we have avoided a 2nd Great Depression.  

The price of gold today is virtually the same as the price of gold 365 days ago.  Gold tracks the fear of inflation.  Low inflation doesn’t bode well for the price of gold.    

Quote
Only a true liberal could come out now and brag about auto stock prices, after so many got nothing for owning that same stock just not too long ago…………and the original investors were illegally screwed out of their money
Why don’t conservatives look up the facts about bankruptcy law and learn that stock holders are the very first group wiped out in a bankruptcy.  Google is your friend and educator.  I’m a little surprised our conservatives don’t know how bankruptcy really works.  I guess that is good in a sense.
Logged
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6294

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2013, 07:38:58 PM »

What was the price of gold Jan. of 2008, and what is it now?

Gas was 1.89 and is now 3.40. Yep, a good example of your3%, all right.

In case you haven't noticed, most of us are in the 2nd great depression. My expenses are more than double what they were at the end of 07, yet my income is up a whopping 16.00 per month.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2013, 08:34:10 PM »

yes, google can be your friend.  you do need to practice with it to find info.
i get it if you don't understand this stuff, but to put it simply, the government stepped in, messed in what should have been a simple bankruptcy, and screwed over the bondholders who should have been paid out of the sale of assets. 

http://www.dailywealth.com/2125/gm-americas-biggest-bankruptcy

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/statement-from-screwed-gm-bondholders#.UPilDqOC-Gk

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/09/gm-auto-industry-personal-finance-guru-insight-obama-bankruptcy.html

and worse, the tax payer, who never should have had any risk at all because tax payer money should never have been used, lost. 

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/08/15/taxpayers-gm-investment-down-25-billion/
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
deknow
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 758


Location: Massachusetts


WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2013, 08:43:40 PM »

Kathy is 100% correct...the bondholders got screwed in a way that makes future investment more difficult.

What I have trouble understanding is how one can talk about markets, and how they go up and down...yet, when someone invests in a house and the market goes down, it is some kind of violation of the physical laws of the universe.  You can lose your money in the stock market.  You can lose it in Vegas...but if you make a bad real estate investment, it is the role of the government (and those that were willing to lend you the money) to "fix" it.  ...because everyone knows that if one makes a killing in real estate, one always gives some of that money the person they bought the property from, right?

deknow
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2013, 08:45:46 PM »

now for inflation

anyone who shops knows that inflation is not 3%.

http://etfdailynews.com/2012/10/08/what-is-the-real-inflation-rate/

http://moneymorning.com/2012/03/08/steak-hamburger-and-dog-food-how-the-government-lies-about-the-real-inflation-rate/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/price_clubbed_in_jRGGyS9wKfAKjxAs0bkVnO

and this is how we measure it when we shop.

https://www.aier.org/epi
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2013, 08:54:55 PM »

Liberals think if you lose 25% of the value of your home, while prices on your everyday goods go up 25%, you are at 0% inflation. They argue that if you were to buy a house, you save 25% and then this "savings" can pay for everything else that went up 25%.

While the smart person who just happens not to buy a home at the rate that you pay for gas or food (like weekly) is smart enough to know that losing 25% of your home value while paying 25% more for everything else, does not equate into a 0% inflation rate. That is fuzzy math.

And that is how some argue that inflation is so low. But anyone actually paying their bills, while NOT living off the government to supply them everything, knows the real story.  Wink

The left must be so proud......
Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2013, 09:12:32 PM »

What was the price of gold Jan. of 2008, and what is it now?

Gas was 1.89 and is now 3.40. Yep, a good example of your3%, all right.

In case you haven't noticed, most of us are in the 2nd great depression. My expenses are more than double what they were at the end of 07, yet my income is up a whopping 16.00 per month.


Don't get to personal iddee. One, it is not worth it. Two, I never met a true liberal that actually cared about the next person. For liberals, cap and trade is not about the environment. Gun control is not about children. Social programs are not about actually helping folks improve their positions. These may be the "stories" they claim, but in everything, it comes down to control.

The fact that you are so far behind, is a reason in their minds of why you should throw it all in, live off the government, and become enslaved to their system. They would actually think you are stupid to try so hard, to want to do it yourself. In some social settings, generation after generation have been taken care of by liberals. They give out just enough to keep their thumbs of oppression from choking them to death, but they really have no lives. These groups are just too stupid to do anything about it.

They can fools others. But I am sure you are too smart for it.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 10:06:34 PM by BjornBee » Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2013, 11:29:24 PM »

iddee this one is for you since you like quoting the price of gasoline so much.



Price of natural gas under Dubya $13 per millionBTU.  Price of natural gas today $3.50
The price has deflated by 75%!!  Good news if you like to keep warm in the winter.

As for tough times in general.  I don’t dispute that a bit.  Tough here too.  I’m just saying Obama deserves some credit for success too.  The stock market has been a roaring success under Obama.
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2013, 11:39:17 PM »

Kathy is 100% correct...the bondholders got screwed in a way that makes future investment more difficult.

What I have trouble understanding is how one can talk about markets, and how they go up and down...yet, when someone invests in a house and the market goes down, it is some kind of violation of the physical laws of the universe.  You can lose your money in the stock market.  You can lose it in Vegas...but if you make a bad real estate investment, it is the role of the government (and those that were willing to lend you the money) to "fix" it.  ...because everyone knows that if one makes a killing in real estate, one always gives some of that money the person they bought the property from, right?  Thank you Mr Obama for not feeding the sharks!

deknow

Good post in general Deknow

But KathyP isn't even close to 100% correct about the bondholders and BjornBee is 0% wrong about stock holders getting unfairly wiped out.  GM bonds had a "junk" rating YEARS before Bush killed the auto business.  Bonds aren't classified as "junk" status for no reason!  There is a very good chance when you buy "junk" you can end up loosing capital.  That is exactly what happened.  And, oh by the way, the speculators (yes SPECULATORS) who were the real holders of those bonds figured the good ole Republicans would give them a giant % gainer by paying off those JUNK bonds at face value.

Very good points about Realestate Deknow.  I suspect the reason the Gov really can't afford to have it drop is because it would take the banks with it and the whole economy after that.    
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2013, 01:14:47 AM »

Oooops, even us moderates make mistakes from time to time.  Somehow my fingers typed “BjornBee is 0% wrong” with his assertion that STOCKHOLDERS unfairly got wiped out in the GM bankruptcy.  LOL…that didn’t’ come out exactly right, but what the heck I like BjornBee and my fingers didn't want to diss him.  We just have different perspectives when it comes to Obama. 

If I go into politics, my fellow beeks are going to support one of their own aren’t they?
Logged
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2013, 06:39:40 AM »


If I go into politics, my fellow beeks are going to support one of their own aren’t they?


Heck no!

That is what is wrong with the country. If you are union....you are supposed to vote one way. If you are black, you are to vote one way. If you are religious, you are to vote one way. if you are a women, you are to vote one way.

Why would beekeepers all vote because someone else was a beekeeper? Placing people in boxes because of fear or because of false promises, is part of the problem. I understand the "mob" mentality. People naturally define themselves into groups, oftentimes feeling superior to others for the mere fact of a title or association. Bikers grow bigger balls and their pride goes up if the group masses in herds and ride in endless circles on weekends. Throw on a label such as "master beekeeper" and some think they are better than others.

Personally, I don't look at such items as "beekeeper" and think for the fact they keep bees, that they are any more of a person than the next.

Yes, I find that some on the left are constantly labeling folks. Whether it be class warfare, race warfare, or any other defining point, they need to constantly apply some caste system to everything they do. Academia promotes it.

I would much rather vote for a person based on merit, values, record, etc. I know I am the minority in that thought process. Oh crap,,,,I just labeled myself.  Wink

First black president.....first real black president. The left is good at voting for labels.  grin

Meanwhile, behind the scenes, the party who ran on the whole "war on women" can not even pick a women to hold a position in the cabinet.

That is how it works. But give the left credit....it works in fooling most voters.

The left must be so proud.  Wink
Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
deknow
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 758


Location: Massachusetts


WWW
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2013, 06:51:02 AM »

...that is like saying it is OK to mug a lottery winner....a risky investment at best, and if you do win, you don't deserve to win in the first place.

The bond holders for GM bought (legally, in a standard way) interest in the company and it's assets.  ....then the gov gave them to the UAW.

It would be like someone taking your car, selling it, and giving the proceeds to all the gas station attendants that have filled your tank in the last year.....but you paid for your gas already.

Deknow
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 03:42:56 PM by deknow » Logged
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6294

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2013, 08:40:54 AM »

Congrats, Blue. You found one item that has went down in price due to a glut of it hitting the market. Now tell me what percent of the people have access to natural gas.

PS. I don't have, so how does that help me?

Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2013, 10:04:18 AM »

bluebee doesn't really care about facts.  he just wants to get the occasional post in that blames bush for something.  even the hardcore leftists in public have given that up, but bulebee needs some time to catch up.... grin  i'm willing to give it to him.  he has another 4 years to figure it out.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2013, 10:45:48 AM »

Congrats, Blue. You found one item that has went down in price due to a glut of it hitting the market. Now tell me what percent of the people have access to natural gas.

PS. I don't have, so how does that help me?

Just about everybody in a city (ie the majority of the US population) and most people within a mile or two of the cities.

Boone Pickens is building NG refilling stations along the highways, so the answer to your question is just about everybody  Smiley
Logged
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2013, 11:20:29 AM »

Congrats, Blue. You found one item that has went down in price due to a glut of it hitting the market. Now tell me what percent of the people have access to natural gas.

PS. I don't have, so how does that help me?

Just about everybody in a city (ie the majority of the US population) and most people within a mile or two of the cities.

Boone Pickens is building NG refilling stations along the highways, so the answer to your question is just about everybody  Smiley

Iddee,
I understand what you were saying. 99% of drivers still fill up with gasoline. Yes, everyone has access to NG, but how many actually use it? Not many.

Did you notice the side step everytime someone makes a point. It started with inflation, went to gas, then to natural gas, to Boone Pickens.

The original point was gas, a product most folks buy weekly, has doubled.

Typical left positioning. You must be so proud!  Wink
Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2013, 06:19:08 PM »

Quote
Boone Pickens is building NG refilling stations along the highways, so the answer to your question is just about everybody  Smiley

don't expect it to stay cheap if the left gets it's way.  they don't like the way it's extracted.  they block LNG lines and shipping.  by the time they are done with it, they will have figured out how to make it expensive and to demonize it as they have oil and coal. 
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
sterling
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1062

Location: mt juliet tn


« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 06:46:31 PM »

Quote
Boone Pickens is building NG refilling stations along the highways, so the answer to your question is just about everybody  Smiley

don't expect it to stay cheap if the left gets it's way.  they don't like the way it's extracted.  they block LNG lines and shipping.  by the time they are done with it, they will have figured out how to make it expensive and to demonize it as they have oil and coal. 
The EPA has been after it for several years now. Hollywood has come out with a movie demonizing it so I'm told I don't watch movies cause I don't support liberals.
Logged
sterling
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1062

Location: mt juliet tn


« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2013, 06:49:14 PM »

bluebee doesn't really care about facts.  he just wants to get the occasional post in that blames bush for something.  even the hardcore leftists in public have given that up, but bulebee needs some time to catch up.... grin  i'm willing to give it to him.  he has another 4 years to figure it out.
[/quote

For once I'll have to disagree with you Kathy. Bluebee will never figure it out. if he could he should have already.
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2013, 03:26:12 AM »

Sterling you don’t watch movies?

I lived in your fair state for a while so I almost think of you and Kingbee like my brothers! 
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2013, 03:37:19 AM »

don't expect it to stay cheap if the left gets it's way.  they don't like the way it's extracted.  they block LNG lines and shipping.  by the time they are done with it, they will have figured out how to make it expensive and to demonize it as they have oil and coal. 
Ah ha!  More evidence I'm a moderate.  I don't block or demonize natural gas.  Smiley

Now for your momentary lapse of reason.  The USA is a net exporter of NG.  We're the 2nd largest producer in the world.  If we allow the LNG facilities to go on line what do you reckon will happen?  Our gas will be EXPORTED and THEN we have have higher prices.  I'm not a fan of the LNG for a few reasons; including driving up domestic prices. 
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2013, 11:00:12 AM »

but isn't trade, especially exporting, good for the US?  since the nuts have just about destroyed our coal industry, we need a new export.  or...should we only be importers of goods?
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2013, 01:23:25 PM »

Trade has not been good for the USA since the Republicans took over in the 1980s.  The policies they enacted resulted in the destruction of the manufacturing industry in America.  Have you ever noticed where all those things you buy are manufactured?

There you go with coal again......  What is the conservative’s obsession with coal huh  It just boggles my mind why the conservatives like high cost dirty energy (coal) when lower cost cleaner energy (natural gas) is available.  It doesn’t make any logical sense.  It seems like another case where the conservatives are oblivious to reality.  
Logged
Fox Creek
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 568

Location: Pollock Pines Ca.


« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2013, 02:30:43 PM »

Trade has not been good for the USA since the Republicans took over in the 1980s.  The policies they enacted resulted in the destruction of the manufacturing industry in America.  Have you ever noticed where all those things you buy are manufactured?

There you go with coal again......  What is the conservative’s obsession with coal huh  It just boggles my mind why the conservatives like high cost dirty energy (coal) when lower cost cleaner energy (natural gas) is available.  It doesn’t make any logical sense.  It seems like another case where the conservatives are oblivious to reality.  


  As I recall, back then it was republicans and democrats pushing the policies, which sold Americans down the road. Many, and I mean many, left the republican party at this time.

  Is it conservatives are obsessed with coal ? Or is it conservatives are obsessed with leftist who are willing to put people out of work to get what they want? If its to be natural gas, then it will be so. Fossil fuel has driven our economy. Where the money is and what puts people to work is what should be. And yes, we can be careful with our environment at the same time.   



 
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2013, 02:41:15 PM »

bluebee knows better. he just thinks that he can yank our chain and start something.  he knows very well that our clean coal is used around the world and that the coal industry is vital in many states.  he might not care that people are put out of work, but he knows the facts.  he also knows that the main destroyer of our ability to compete in most industry has been the unions.  when you insist on wage and benefit that the market can't support, you will eventually lose your job....unless the government steps in a nationalizes your company and bails out your union....and even then, it will not save you forever....

all liberals really do know these things, but they think that if they wish hard enough they can have the utopia they dream of.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2013, 04:35:52 PM »

he knows the facts.  
Now I think we’re getting somewhere. Wink

he also knows that the main destroyer of our ability to compete in most industry has been the unions.  when you insist on wage and benefit that the market can't support, you will eventually lose your job....
LOL.  WHO do you think mines coal!  United Mine Workers of America.

Where were all the conservatives in the 1980s when the industrial power house that used to be the USA was systematically destroyed by the Republicans in favor of Wall Street and their house of cards?  We USED to be the China of the world.  The world’s greatest exporter.
Logged
sterling
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1062

Location: mt juliet tn


« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2013, 06:12:42 PM »

Sterling you don’t watch movies?

I lived in your fair state for a while so I almost think of you and Kingbee like my brothers! 


Well Bro you need to move back down here for a stay so you can get indoctrinated back into the conservative way. Or were you here when the south was run by the KKK Democrats?
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2013, 09:16:15 PM »

Quote
Where were all the conservatives in the 1980s when the industrial power house that used to be the USA was systematically destroyed by the Republicans in favor of Wall Street and their house of cards?

why don't you explain to us just how that was done?
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kingbee
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1083


Location: Big bend of the Tennessee River


« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2013, 03:56:47 PM »

... Why don’t conservatives look up the facts about bankruptcy law and learn that stock holders are the very first group wiped out in a bankruptcy.  Google is your friend and educator... I'm a little surprised our conservatives don’t know how bankruptcy... works....

Government Motors in effect filed chapter 7.  Chapter 7 bankruptcy is the biggie.  Any company that files chapter 7 is in effect closing up shop and going home, never to operate again. That also involves investors loosing ALL their equity.

The pale bleeding vestage of Government Motors didn't go away, they totally shafted all the investors in Government Motors and all the creditors in Government Motors (people who GM owed money to) except for the UAW's pention fund and the UAW itself.  You should remember that actions like the ones engaged in by Obama with regards to Government Motors represents an awaking of Feudalism.  In other words in the future instead of the rule of law to protected us as we relied on it to do in the past, we now require a pantheon of Feudal Lords and armed Knights, each one who commands a ruthless army of paid henchmen and tax collectors whose only job is to meat out justice as the laird of the mannor sees fit.  Or who ocasually robs from Peter to buy Paul's loyality.

When the Emperor's new cloths are all striped away and he stands before the people in all his naked glory, it becomes obvious that Progressiveism or Liberalism is the same old system of slavery and repression that has continually plagued mankind every where on Earth, except here for the last 238 years.  Serf observe, your brave new tomorrow, enjoy it.

The Government bail out of the Auto Industry was just a dress rehearsal for the full bankruptcy sans bailout of the United States of America and maybe inorder to gauge the reaction by the nations that will be lining up to get their citizens Euros, Yen, Pounds, and Renminbi back.  In some perverse twist of history, look for Brittan, France, and China to band together and occupy San Diego and San Francisco until we pay our debts in full.  This could give San Francisco's China Town a whole new meaning.
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4484

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2013, 01:54:33 AM »

Can our beeks at least muster up one “hip hip hooray” for Obama on the official start of his next term? 

Isn’t there enough for at least a little cheer?

Dow Industrials UP 70% since Obama took over
Nasdaq composite up a whopping 112% since Obama took over
S&P500 index up 80% since Obama took over
In fact said indexes are now at a 5 year high!

Beeks that invested in Obama made 20% a year.  Even Reagan would be envious of that.
Inflation has been under 3.5%.  About 2.5% now.
Natural gas prices have fallen 75%.
No more war in Iraq.
No 2nd Great Depression.



Can we at least get a whimper out of the conservatives?  How about a groan?
Logged
asprince
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1702

Location: Fort Valley, Georgia


« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2013, 06:58:24 AM »

Ok.......even a blind squirrel will find an acorn sometimes.  whimper whimper groan groan


Steve
Logged

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resembalance to the first. - Ronald Reagan
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2013, 10:20:02 AM »

this is a FB post that you are reposting without any attribution or indication of how they came to this.  if you google it, you'll find that it is much disputed.  that should have taken you 2 seconds before you posted.  i think you should return your computer because you must have gotten one without a search engine.

BUT....lets say your post is 100% correct. 

that's not the problem with BOs spending.  the problem is with the % of GDP that he is spending and the rise in our debt.  if you deficit spend and increase your debt, it is not sustainable.  not for an individual and not for a country. 
if i have an income of 50,000 and i spend 60,000, i can do that for a year or two as long as i can make the payments on the extra 10,000, but i can't do it year after year because the payment grow. 
right now, we are ok with the payments because the interest rates are very low.  what happens when they go up?  right now, we are keeping our heads above water because the dollar is still worth something and is still the favored international currency.  do you think that will last as we print more and devalue it? 

you put a lot of store in the stock market, but that just tells me that you don't know much about how it works. 
as for inflation, you have been, and still are, wrong about that and again....the interest rates can't stay as artificially low as they are.  inflation is only going to get worse with the devaluing of the dollar and the projected rise in interest rates.

you look at your stats and you are happy.  we look at what is propping up your stats and we see no way out of disaster.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
sterling
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1062

Location: mt juliet tn


« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2013, 11:56:53 AM »

Can our beeks at least muster up one “hip hip hooray” for Obama on the official start of his next term? 

Isn’t there enough for at least a little cheer?

Dow Industrials UP 70% since Obama took over
Nasdaq composite up a whopping 112% since Obama took over
S&P500 index up 80% since Obama took over
In fact said indexes are now at a 5 year high!

Beeks that invested in Obama made 20% a year.  Even Reagan would be envious of that.
Inflation has been under 3.5%.  About 2.5% now.
Natural gas prices have fallen 75%.
No more war in Iraq.
No 2nd Great Depression.



Can we at least get a whimper out of the conservatives?  How about a groan?



Hip Hip Hooray.
We got to pay for his 13 vacations
His 123 golf games
All his White House parties.
And even are supporting his mother in-law.
Ain't it GREAT and going to get GREATER
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15316


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2013, 12:15:33 PM »

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/06/14/president-obama-the-biggest-government-spender-in-world-history/2/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/06/14/president-obama-the-biggest-government-spender-in-world-history/2/

don't buy that FB post.  after even superficial analysis, it's wrong and uses some "fact" gathering slight of hand to come to it's point.  it will take you only a few seconds to figure it out if you google it.  even application of common sense tells you it's not true.  if it were we would not have the deficit spending we do and the debt to go with it. 

i do understand why people like bluebee would cling to it..........
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6294

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2013, 12:42:09 PM »

Bluebee can be excused this time. The Michigan temps are way down and he doesn't have thermal socks. His brain is frozen.  evil   grin

Even his chart says the 2009 bailouts are accredited to bush's spending in the chart. How dumb can that be.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.674 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page December 10, 2014, 04:36:28 PM