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Author Topic: The shotgun, a lesson for America  (Read 2385 times)
iddee
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« on: January 11, 2013, 05:32:16 PM »


You're sound asleep when  you hear  a thump outside your  bedroom door.

Half-awake, and nearly  paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled  whispers.
 
At least two people have  broken into your house and are moving your  way.
 

With your heart pumping,  you reach down beside your bed and pick up your  shotgun.
 

You rack a shell into  the chamber, then inch toward the door and open  it...
 
 

In the darkness, you  make out two  shadows.
 
 
 One holds something that  looks like a  crowbar.
 
 

When the intruder  brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the  shotgun and fire.
 
 

The blast knocks both  thugs to the  floor.
 
 

One writhes and screams  while the second man crawls to the front  door
 
 

and lurches  outside.
 
 

As you pick up the  telephone to call police, you know you're in  trouble.
 
 

In your country, most guns  were outlawed years  before,
 
 
 
 
and the few that are  privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make  them useless..
 
 

Yours was never  registered.
 
 
 
 
Police arrive and inform  you
 
 

that the second burglar has  died.
 

They arrest you for First Degree  Murder
 

and  Illegal Possession of a  Firearm.
 

When you talk to your attorney,  he tells you not to worry:
 
authorities will probably plea the case  down to manslaughter.
 

"What kind of sentence will I  get?" you ask.
 
"Only ten-to-twelve  years,"
 

he  replies, as if that's  nothing.
 

"Behave yourself, and you'll be  out in seven."
 

The  next day, the shooting is the  lead
 

story in the local  newspaper.
 

Somehow, you're portrayed as an  eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are  represented as choirboys.
 
Their friends and relatives  can't find an unkind word to say about  them..
 

Buried deep down in the article,  authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been  arrested numerous times.
 

But  the next day's headline says it  all:
 

"Lovable Rogue Son Didn't  Deserve to Die."
 

The  thieves have been transformed from career criminals into  Robin Hood-type  pranksters..
 

As  the days wear on, the story takes  wings.
 

The  national media picks it  up,
 

then the international  media.
 
 The  surviving burglar has become a folk  hero.
 

Your attorney says the thief is  preparing  to sue you, and he'll probably  win.
 

The  media publishes reports that your home has been  burglarized several times in the past and
 
that you've  been critical of local police for their  lack
 

of  effort in apprehending the  suspects.
 

After the last break-in, you  told your neighbor that you would be prepared next  time.
 
The  District Attorney uses this to  allege
 

that you were lying in wait for  the burglars.
 

A  few months later, you go to  trial.
 

The  charges haven't been  reduced,
 

as  your lawyer had so confidently  predicted.
 

When you take the stand, your anger at
 

the  injustice of it all works against  you..
 

Prosecutors paint a picture of  you
 

as  a mean, vengeful man.
 

It  doesn't take long for the jury to convict you of all  charges.
 

The  judge sentences you to life in  prison.
 

This case really  happened.
 

On  August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk ,  England , killed one burglar and wounded a  second.
 

In  April, 2000, he was convicted  and  is now serving a life  term..
 

How  did it become a crime to defend one's own life in the  once great British Empire    ?
 
It  started with the Pistols Act of  1903.
 

This seemingly reasonable law  forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and
 
established that handgun sales were to be made only to  those who had a license.
 

The Firearms Act of 1920  expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all  firearms except shotguns..
 

Later laws passed in 1953 and  1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and
 
mandated the registration of all shotguns.
 

Momentum for total handgun  confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass  shooting in 1987.
 
Michael  Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the street shooting everyone he  saw.
When the  smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.

The British  public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun  control", demanded even tougher restrictions.
 
(The  seizure of all privately owned handguns was the  objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

Nine years  later, at Dunblane , Scotland ,
 

Thomas Hamilton used a  semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a  teacher at a public school.

For many  years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as  mentally unstable, or worse, criminals.
 

Now the  press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding  gun owners.
 

Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a  total ban on all handguns.
 

The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearm's
 

still owned by private  citizens.

During the  years in which the British government incrementally took  away most gun rights,
 
the notion that a citizen had the  right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism.
 

Authorities refused to grant gun  licenses to people who were threatened,
 
claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun.
 

Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or  rapists were charged while the real criminals were  released.

Indeed,  after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted  as saying,
 

"We cannot have people take the law into  their own hands."

All of Tony Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, 
and several elderly people were severely injured in  beatings by young thugs
who had no fear of the  consequences.
Martin himself, a collector of  antiques,
had seen most of his collection 
trashed or stolen by  burglars.

When the  Dunblane Inquiry ended,
citizens who owned handguns 
were given three months to turn them over to local  authorities.

Being good  British subjects,
most people obeyed the law. 
The few who didn't were visited by police
and  threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't  comply.

Police  later bragged that they'd taken
nearly 200,000  handguns from private citizens.

How did the authorities know who  had handguns?
The guns had been registered and  licensed.
Kind of like cars. Sound  familiar?

WAKE UP AMERICA ;
 
THIS IS  WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR  CONSTITUTION.

"...It does not require a  majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless  minority keen to set brush fires in people's  minds.."
--Samuel  Adams
 

You had better wake up, because  Obama is  doing this very same thing, over here, if he can get it  done.
 
 
And there  are stupid people in congress and on the street that will go right along with  him.
 
 
Meanwhile, here in the states, over 17,000 Men Women and CHILDREN are killed every year, from Drunk Driving Crashes. Yet you don't hear anyone wanting to ban alcohol, do you? And how many others are crippled for life? Living at Taxpayers expense after not ever being able to function normally again? Where's the outrage? Do you see any legislation to stop this needless slaughter? No! Why not?
 
Isn't this important? Or is getting drunk and driving  somehow more acceptable than having the ability to defend ourselves? You tell me!
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 05:50:18 PM »

he served 3 years.  got out on parole.  could have been out earlier but the parole board thought the might be a risk to society.

  i remember that case.  i remember how appalled my sister was that someone could go to jail for protecting their own home.  that was her introduction to the British attitude toward guns....although she said that the farmer had a lot of support from the general population.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 08:01:22 PM »

Next time, he won't call the cops after he shoots an intruder thug in his house. 
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tefer2
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 08:35:32 PM »

Every farmers knows a hog will eat anything shocked
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deknow
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 09:13:10 PM »

I'm no gun control freak...but how would this case be handled in the US, today?  The most important missing part of the story is that he _did_ have  a shotgun certificate...but it had been taken away in '94 (5 years before) because he "shot a hole" in the back of a vehicle he caught stealing apples.
So, what happens in the US if you've had your permits revoked for violations, and 5 years later you shoot two people in your home with an unregistered weapon you claim to have "found"?

deknow
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2013, 12:34:54 AM »

Gee, what is the definition of "infringe"?
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AllenF
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2013, 11:35:52 AM »

To commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress, to encroach or trespass.
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2013, 12:14:22 PM »

Quote
The most important missing part of the story is that he _did_ have  a shotgun certificate...but it had been taken away in '94 (5 years before) because he "shot a hole" in the back of a vehicle he caught stealing apples.
So, what happens in the US if you've had your permits revoked for violations, and 5 years later you shoot two people in your home with an unregistered weapon you claim to have "found"?

maybe we don't want to get to the point where we find out? 

certificates, permits, revocations.....seems like a lot of infringement.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 03:34:19 PM »

To commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress, to encroach or trespass.

Thank you Allenf.   For quite so time now, we have been allowing politicians to pick and chose which parts of the constitution they want to follow. We have a man leading our country who has said, "there are parts of the constitution which need to be changed!". (this was uttered before becoming president. I saw the video, he said it. Do your own research.) Its not just him. Its republicans and democrats. The way to beat these people, is to throw them out every time they violate their oath. We only support those who follow the constitution. Our founding fathers gave us this document. It has guided us to great success. Over two hundred years later, its still the truth. If a politician passes a law, which violates my rights, I will refuse to just go along. I will work to regain those rights.     
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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 03:48:36 PM »

and, occasionally the constitution does need to be changed.  we have a way to do that.  rather than just ignore the law, change it if you feel that it is important enough to make that effort.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013, 05:08:48 PM »


maybe we don't want to get to the point where we find out? 

certificates, permits, revocations.....seems like a lot of infringement.

So, in your state, you can't be denied a firearm even if you have been found to shoot at vehicles illegally?

deknow
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iddee
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2013, 06:55:02 PM »

There is a big difference in saying John Doe is not allowed to own a gun, and saying a gun is not allowed to be owned by any citizen.

Permit people, not guns.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2013, 07:21:19 PM »

I find it very hard to worry much about a fleeing thief getting holes in his vehicle.  In a sane world that would just help the police find and punish the perpetrator.  I don't know if I will ever be castrated enough not to protect my property.  But a lot of folks have been.
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edward
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« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2013, 08:01:25 PM »

Most Likely they had a problem with him shooting them in the back , bit hard to argue self defence shooting the backside of a car  Undecided

mvh edward  tongue
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2013, 09:25:15 PM »

I find it very hard to worry much about a fleeing thief getting holes in his vehicle.  In a sane world that would just help the police find and punish the perpetrator.  I don't know if I will ever be castrated enough not to protect my property.  But a lot of folks have been.

At one time we had the "fleeing felon law". It was meant to protect the public from dangerous criminals. Now because the hands of the police have been tied, we have innocent people losing life and limb. We see this in the well covered chases in L.A.

When I hear " gun control" from the mouth of a politician, I have to wonder what they really want to control.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 10:06:02 PM by Fox Creek » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2013, 12:25:37 AM »

I had this bumper sticker on the back of my ol' Cherokee until it cracked and peeled off.  Looks like I need to get another one for my Wrangler...

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American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

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kathyp
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2013, 11:41:24 AM »

which brings us back here....

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/us/social-security-bullets/index.html

i picked this link because it's the pro-government link.  you can find all the others on your own  grin

and as the last re-posted comment in the article says, you don't use hollow points for target practice....unless you are just wasting my money!

it would be interesting to know how much of what has been purchased in the past by other admins?  presumably the same re-certification requirements existed in the past?  maybe some enterprising body can find that info.  i have a wedding to attend today.....

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Fox Creek
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2013, 12:29:47 PM »

which brings us back here....

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/us/social-security-bullets/index.html

i picked this link because it's the pro-government link.  you can find all the others on your own  grin

and as the last re-posted comment in the article says, you don't use hollow points for target practice....unless you are just wasting my money!

it would be interesting to know how much of what has been purchased in the past by other admins?  presumably the same re-certification requirements existed in the past?  maybe some enterprising body can find that info.  i have a wedding to attend today.....




I can tell you from first hand experience, police do use hollow points for target practice. Same ammunition used in service.
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GeezLouise
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« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2013, 06:15:23 PM »

There is a wikipedia article on Tony Martin that is kind of interesting
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kathyp
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« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2013, 10:42:19 PM »

Quote
Same ammunition used in service.

in all my years in the service i never used hollow points for quals or fam fire.

not to say that no one does it, but the cost difference between target rounds and hollow points is significant.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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