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iddee
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« on: January 11, 2013, 05:32:16 PM » |
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You're sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door.
Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers. At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way.
With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun.
You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it...
In the darkness, you make out two shadows. One holds something that looks like a crowbar.
When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire.
The blast knocks both thugs to the floor.
One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door
and lurches outside.
As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you're in trouble.
In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless..
Yours was never registered. Police arrive and inform you
that the second burglar has died.
They arrest you for First Degree Murder
and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.
When you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter.
"What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask. "Only ten-to-twelve years,"
he replies, as if that's nothing.
"Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven."
The next day, the shooting is the lead
story in the local newspaper.
Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys. Their friends and relatives can't find an unkind word to say about them..
Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times.
But the next day's headline says it all:
"Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die."
The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters..
As the days wear on, the story takes wings.
The national media picks it up,
then the international media. The surviving burglar has become a folk hero.
Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he'll probably win.
The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you've been critical of local police for their lack
of effort in apprehending the suspects.
After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time. The District Attorney uses this to allege
that you were lying in wait for the burglars.
A few months later, you go to trial.
The charges haven't been reduced,
as your lawyer had so confidently predicted.
When you take the stand, your anger at
the injustice of it all works against you..
Prosecutors paint a picture of you
as a mean, vengeful man.
It doesn't take long for the jury to convict you of all charges.
The judge sentences you to life in prison.
This case really happened.
On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second.
In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term..
How did it become a crime to defend one's own life in the once great British Empire ? It started with the Pistols Act of 1903.
This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license.
The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns..
Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.
Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the street shooting everyone he saw. When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.
The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)
Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland ,
Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.
For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals.
Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners.
Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns.
The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearm's
still owned by private citizens.
During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism.
Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun.
Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.
Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying,
"We cannot have people take the law into their own hands."
All of Tony Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.
When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities.
Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply.
Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.
How did the authorities know who had handguns? The guns had been registered and licensed. Kind of like cars. Sound familiar?
WAKE UP AMERICA ; THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.
"...It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." --Samuel Adams
You had better wake up, because Obama is doing this very same thing, over here, if he can get it done. And there are stupid people in congress and on the street that will go right along with him. Meanwhile, here in the states, over 17,000 Men Women and CHILDREN are killed every year, from Drunk Driving Crashes. Yet you don't hear anyone wanting to ban alcohol, do you? And how many others are crippled for life? Living at Taxpayers expense after not ever being able to function normally again? Where's the outrage? Do you see any legislation to stop this needless slaughter? No! Why not? Isn't this important? Or is getting drunk and driving somehow more acceptable than having the ability to defend ourselves? You tell me!
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"
*Shel Silverstein*
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 05:50:18 PM » |
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he served 3 years. got out on parole. could have been out earlier but the parole board thought the might be a risk to society.
i remember that case. i remember how appalled my sister was that someone could go to jail for protecting their own home. that was her introduction to the British attitude toward guns....although she said that the farmer had a lot of support from the general population.
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"What has destroyed liberty and the rights of man in every government which has ever existed under the sun? The generalizing and concentrating all cares and powers into one body, no matter whether of the autocrats of Russia or France, or of the aristocrats of a Venetian Senate." --Thomas Jefferson to Joseph C. Cabell, 1816.
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AllenF
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 08:01:22 PM » |
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Next time, he won't call the cops after he shoots an intruder thug in his house.
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deknow
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 09:13:10 PM » |
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I'm no gun control freak...but how would this case be handled in the US, today? The most important missing part of the story is that he _did_ have a shotgun certificate...but it had been taken away in '94 (5 years before) because he "shot a hole" in the back of a vehicle he caught stealing apples. So, what happens in the US if you've had your permits revoked for violations, and 5 years later you shoot two people in your home with an unregistered weapon you claim to have "found"?
deknow
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2013, 12:34:54 AM » |
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Gee, what is the definition of "infringe"?
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AllenF
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2013, 11:35:52 AM » |
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To commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress, to encroach or trespass.
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2013, 12:14:22 PM » |
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The most important missing part of the story is that he _did_ have a shotgun certificate...but it had been taken away in '94 (5 years before) because he "shot a hole" in the back of a vehicle he caught stealing apples. So, what happens in the US if you've had your permits revoked for violations, and 5 years later you shoot two people in your home with an unregistered weapon you claim to have "found"? maybe we don't want to get to the point where we find out? certificates, permits, revocations.....seems like a lot of infringement.
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"What has destroyed liberty and the rights of man in every government which has ever existed under the sun? The generalizing and concentrating all cares and powers into one body, no matter whether of the autocrats of Russia or France, or of the aristocrats of a Venetian Senate." --Thomas Jefferson to Joseph C. Cabell, 1816.
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 03:34:19 PM » |
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To commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress, to encroach or trespass.
Thank you Allenf. For quite so time now, we have been allowing politicians to pick and chose which parts of the constitution they want to follow. We have a man leading our country who has said, "there are parts of the constitution which need to be changed!". (this was uttered before becoming president. I saw the video, he said it. Do your own research.) Its not just him. Its republicans and democrats. The way to beat these people, is to throw them out every time they violate their oath. We only support those who follow the constitution. Our founding fathers gave us this document. It has guided us to great success. Over two hundred years later, its still the truth. If a politician passes a law, which violates my rights, I will refuse to just go along. I will work to regain those rights.
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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 03:48:36 PM » |
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and, occasionally the constitution does need to be changed. we have a way to do that. rather than just ignore the law, change it if you feel that it is important enough to make that effort.
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"What has destroyed liberty and the rights of man in every government which has ever existed under the sun? The generalizing and concentrating all cares and powers into one body, no matter whether of the autocrats of Russia or France, or of the aristocrats of a Venetian Senate." --Thomas Jefferson to Joseph C. Cabell, 1816.
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deknow
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013, 05:08:48 PM » |
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maybe we don't want to get to the point where we find out?
certificates, permits, revocations.....seems like a lot of infringement.
So, in your state, you can't be denied a firearm even if you have been found to shoot at vehicles illegally? deknow
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iddee
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2013, 06:55:02 PM » |
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There is a big difference in saying John Doe is not allowed to own a gun, and saying a gun is not allowed to be owned by any citizen.
Permit people, not guns.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"
*Shel Silverstein*
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Vance G
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2013, 07:21:19 PM » |
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I find it very hard to worry much about a fleeing thief getting holes in his vehicle. In a sane world that would just help the police find and punish the perpetrator. I don't know if I will ever be castrated enough not to protect my property. But a lot of folks have been.
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edward
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FEED ME HONEY or I`ll smash your screen !
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« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2013, 08:01:25 PM » |
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Most Likely they had a problem with him shooting them in the back , bit hard to argue self defence shooting the backside of a car  mvh edward 
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2013, 09:25:15 PM » |
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I find it very hard to worry much about a fleeing thief getting holes in his vehicle. In a sane world that would just help the police find and punish the perpetrator. I don't know if I will ever be castrated enough not to protect my property. But a lot of folks have been.
At one time we had the "fleeing felon law". It was meant to protect the public from dangerous criminals. Now because the hands of the police have been tied, we have innocent people losing life and limb. We see this in the well covered chases in L.A. When I hear " gun control" from the mouth of a politician, I have to wonder what they really want to control.
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« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 10:06:02 PM by Fox Creek »
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Intheswamp
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2013, 12:25:37 AM » |
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I had this bumper sticker on the back of my ol' Cherokee until it cracked and peeled off. Looks like I need to get another one for my Wrangler... 
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kathyp
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2013, 11:41:24 AM » |
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which brings us back here.... http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/us/social-security-bullets/index.htmli picked this link because it's the pro-government link. you can find all the others on your own  and as the last re-posted comment in the article says, you don't use hollow points for target practice....unless you are just wasting my money! it would be interesting to know how much of what has been purchased in the past by other admins? presumably the same re-certification requirements existed in the past? maybe some enterprising body can find that info. i have a wedding to attend today.....
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"What has destroyed liberty and the rights of man in every government which has ever existed under the sun? The generalizing and concentrating all cares and powers into one body, no matter whether of the autocrats of Russia or France, or of the aristocrats of a Venetian Senate." --Thomas Jefferson to Joseph C. Cabell, 1816.
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2013, 12:29:47 PM » |
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which brings us back here.... http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/us/social-security-bullets/index.htmli picked this link because it's the pro-government link. you can find all the others on your own  and as the last re-posted comment in the article says, you don't use hollow points for target practice....unless you are just wasting my money! it would be interesting to know how much of what has been purchased in the past by other admins? presumably the same re-certification requirements existed in the past? maybe some enterprising body can find that info. i have a wedding to attend today..... I can tell you from first hand experience, police do use hollow points for target practice. Same ammunition used in service.
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GeezLouise
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« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2013, 06:15:23 PM » |
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There is a wikipedia article on Tony Martin that is kind of interesting
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1910' elevation, east slope of Cascade Mt range, orchard country
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kathyp
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« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2013, 10:42:19 PM » |
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Same ammunition used in service. in all my years in the service i never used hollow points for quals or fam fire. not to say that no one does it, but the cost difference between target rounds and hollow points is significant.
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"What has destroyed liberty and the rights of man in every government which has ever existed under the sun? The generalizing and concentrating all cares and powers into one body, no matter whether of the autocrats of Russia or France, or of the aristocrats of a Venetian Senate." --Thomas Jefferson to Joseph C. Cabell, 1816.
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