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Author Topic: Who is working for who?  (Read 1212 times)
edward
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« on: January 10, 2013, 08:33:02 AM »

A sideline from annother post about whos doing the work.

Many think that they are better humans when they do not use foundations and they use natural combs.  Nothing new in that. So they all did 150 years ago.  A beekeeper is not at least better human if the bees do his all work.

Lets take a look a the big picture  cool

Who is working for who?

Is the honey bee working for man, or is man kind working for the honey bee?

The bees have been living in the forest for millions of years doing there thing and thriving, and then mankind came along and enslaved them,  ,,   ,,,, or   ,   ,   ,     not?

Whos doing who a favor, modern man has transported the honey bee all over the world, to the Americas and other places they wouldn't have reached with out the help of mankind .

We study them scientifically and try to understand them give them housing, furniture, food, health care  grin"even in USA"  grin

Mistakes have been made, but would there expansion bee as big and wide without man ?

Same thing with the potato, roses, tulips, fruit trees , and so on

Whos doing the work for who?

mvh edward  tongue
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brushwoodnursery
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 09:40:11 AM »

Read Michael Pollan Botany of Desire (sounds like you may already have done that!)
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CapnChkn
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2013, 11:23:53 PM »

There are a number of organisms that have that "je ne sais quoi" that makes them successful.  In most of the cases, they have attached themselves to Humans in some way, by rote or reason.  Rats, Cats, Dogs, Horses, Etc. have been spread around the world by virtue of having something to do with us, Crows and Ravens are a good example of critters that also have this potential.

Honeybees are successful from their own potential.  Originally a tropical insect, they developed an affinity for building inside cavities.  This gave them greater security against predators, and as a happy accident also allowed them to extend their range.  It's a matter of consequence they have something Humans want.

You can easily imagine Apis Mellifera spreading around the world by setting up camp on a passing ship and colonizing the Western Hemisphere if it were that Humans only saw them as wicked, stinging, evil, little monsters.  At the last I've heard, that's exactly the problem Australia is having with Apis Cerana, serving as the host to Varroa.

Look at the races of a species, and you'll see they generally have a wide range already.  Felis silvestris for example.  You know this guy as your Moggie, Kitty, or Tiddles.  There are anywhere from 4 to 22 subspecies, the main four being the European (Silvestris), African (Libyca), Asia (Ornata), and Mountain (Bieti) Cats.  It's true they've extended their range worldwide, but had already covered Europe, Asia, and Africa without human help 100,000 years ago.

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BlueBee
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2013, 01:17:40 AM »

Clearly Humans are working FOR the bees!  If we dont screw up too bad, they give us a little something in return. Smiley  If we misbehave, they give us some stings Sad
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rdy-b
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2013, 01:27:03 AM »

**Mistakes have been made, but would there expansion bee as big and wide without man ?**

 Man has given the  bee a toxic environment -the bee cant escape mans pollutants
 the planet is not going to last forever---who is dying faster man or the bee???
 cool RDY-B
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BlueBee
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 01:31:11 AM »

Now that is an intriguing question.  Maybe the bee in the new canary?
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edward
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2013, 07:13:11 AM »

the planet is not going to last forever

Not true,

You cant destroy energy, just change its form, we might make this planet uninhabitable for us, but some kind of life will always survive.
Even in the cooling tanks of nuclear reactors there are small celled microbes/animals living thunder

mvh edward  tongue
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little john
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2013, 09:10:17 AM »


Lets take a look a the big picture  cool

Who is working for who?

Is the honey bee working for man, or is man kind working for the honey bee?


Neither - it's a symbiotic relationship.

We supply the cavities (without which the world population of bees would be a minute fraction of what is currently is), together with support when times are bad.

They supply us with honey in good years, and bugger-all in bad ones.

LJ
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CapnChkn
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2013, 11:57:40 AM »

Quote
We supply the cavities (without which the world population of bees would be a minute fraction of what is currently is), together with support when times are bad.

Current estimates are 100 - 200 colonies in each square mile.  Since I know there are 6 hives across the road, 9 hives in my control, I will have to assume there are somewhere around 10 beekeepers in a half mile of me with one or more hives; the feral colonies being incidental.  That is way more than the estimated 700 beekeepers for my county.

There are no "beeherds."  Beekeepers are similar to Gameskeepers, both are managing wild animals.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2013, 12:05:16 PM »

**You cant destroy energy, just change its form,**
 the energy will be gone--what you speak of is MATTER--yes from life supporting-to a dead environment
It is mans self induced quest to out live the realms of time-In doing so he is destroying the habitat for
all that gives meaning to creation-can the bee survive?Huh   Undecided RDY-B
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10framer
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2013, 11:07:27 PM »

**You cant destroy energy, just change its form,**
 the energy will be gone--what you speak of is MATTER--yes from life supporting-to a dead environment
It is mans self induced quest to out live the realms of time-In doing so he is destroying the habitat for
all that gives meaning to creation-can the bee survive?Huh   Undecided RDY-B

there was life on earth for eons before man arrived and there will be some form for eons after we depart.  as a species we think too highly of ourselves.  if it weren't for an opposable thumb and a unique set of vocal chords we would just be scavengers.  there is a good chance the opossum would out-compete us.  what's left behind after we destroy 99 percent of the species on the planet will be the building blocks for the next species to crawl out of the water and eventually stand on two feet then destroy what it took tens of thousands of years to regenerate.  i suspect that by the time we have strip mined the earth we will have started looking for other planets to plunder and this planet will eventually be a myth or at best a story in history books.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2013, 01:28:17 AM »

but some kind of life will always survive.

Until the Sun becomes a Red Giant  Sad

http://www.universetoday.com/12648/will-earth-survive-when-the-sun-becomes-a-red-giant/

Seems like the biggest threat to the bees at the moment (at least as I would gather from the bee forums) isn't man or chemicals; it's mites.   huh
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sterling
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2013, 11:03:31 AM »

**You cant destroy energy, just change its form,**
 the energy will be gone--what you speak of is MATTER--yes from life supporting-to a dead environment
It is mans self induced quest to out live the realms of time-In doing so he is destroying the habitat for
all that gives meaning to creation-can the bee survive?Huh   Undecided RDY-B

there was life on earth for eons before man arrived and there will be some form for eons after we depart.  as a species we think too highly of ourselves.  if it weren't for an opposable thumb and a unique set of vocal chords we would just be scavengers.  there is a good chance the opossum would out-compete us.  what's left behind after we destroy 99 percent of the species on the planet will be the building blocks for the next species to crawl out of the water and eventually stand on two feet then destroy what it took tens of thousands of years to regenerate.  i suspect that by the time we have strip mined the earth we will have started looking for other planets to plunder and this planet will eventually be a myth or at best a story in history books.

Assuming you don't believe in GOD or his written WORD.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2013, 09:37:45 PM »

**You cant destroy energy, just change its form,**
 the energy will be gone--what you speak of is MATTER--yes from life supporting-to a dead environment
It is mans self induced quest to out live the realms of time-In doing so he is destroying the habitat for
all that gives meaning to creation-can the bee survive?Huh   Undecided RDY-B

there was life on earth for eons before man arrived and there will be some form for eons after we depart.  as a species we think too highly of ourselves.  if it weren't for an opposable thumb and a unique set of vocal chords we would just be scavengers.  there is a good chance the opossum would out-compete us.  what's left behind after we destroy 99 percent of the species on the planet will be the building blocks for the next species to crawl out of the water and eventually stand on two feet then destroy what it took tens of thousands of years to regenerate.  i suspect that by the time we have strip mined the earth we will have started looking for other planets to plunder and this planet will eventually be a myth or at best a story in history books.

Assuming you don't believe in GOD or his written WORD.

  I like the part where they say eat thy honey for it is good--- Smiley RDY-B
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