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BlueBee
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« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 04:10:08 AM »

Hmmmm....how do the feral bees living in trees survive without somebody pouring oxalic acid on them?  huh huh huh
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Finski
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« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 04:49:31 AM »

Hmmmm....how do the feral bees living in trees survive without somebody pouring oxalic acid on them?  huh huh huh

They don't.

Feral hives send 2 swarms a year. If they do not die, the earth will be soon full of bees, and it should have been full allready million years ago.

So 2 swarms means 200% more a year....

What happens in ten years when beehives propagate 3 fold every year

In 10 years 1 million colonies will be 20 billion

1   3   9   27   81   243   729   2 187   6 561   19 683
.

And after 21 years the colony amount will be 1 162 261 467 000 000
 = 1 million billion
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Finski
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« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 05:40:38 AM »

.
Why positive persons do not make miracles?

That was a question in our radio today
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BjornBee
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« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 07:50:36 AM »

Hmmmm....how do the feral bees living in trees survive without somebody pouring oxalic acid on them?  huh huh huh

They don't.

Feral hives send 2 swarms a year. If they do not die, the earth will be soon full of bees, and it should have been full allready million years ago.

So 2 swarms means 200% more a year....

What happens in ten years when beehives propagate 3 fold every year

In 10 years 1 million colonies will be 20 billion

1   3   9   27   81   243   729   2 187   6 561   19 683
.

And after 21 years the colony amount will be 1 162 261 467 000 000
 = 1 million billion

I agree.

I have taken part in various feral bee studies. A few things we found were the further you get from the impact of humans, the fewer the bee colonies. Bees are hard to find in deep woods. They also are inflicted by the many problems that any other colonies have, and they die over winter. Bees thrive in areas where hedgerows, unused fields, roadsides weeds, and other land once cleared by humans, allow weeds to grow. But these are usually where beekeepers are also.

Of course many people WANT to believe magical things about feral bees. Some beekeepers have been promoting this for twenty years now. But yet, can anyone really show a survivor line of bees? We can show some improvement between mass produced weak genetic commercially produced bees and some other breeding operations, which is a good thing. But that is a different set of apples and oranges. What we do not have, unless you buy into some very inflated marketing and fluff, is a bunch of "true" survivor bees. You would think that we would all have them after all these years.

I laugh everytime I hear of some beekeeper thinking he is getting "survivor" bees from some barn or tree, in areas where beekeepers are plenty.

Think about it......the story line as always is "How do the feral bees living in trees survive without someone pouring oxalic acid on them?" And yet beekeepers have been collecting these "special" bees for 20 years. And nobody says "How do such and such bees survive without someone pouring oxalic acid on them?"  We always resort back to the bees that nobody seemingly has, and need to make comments about "survivor" bees that we always assume are thriving and been living in that tree for many years. Yet I challenge anyone to tell me where they can get survivor bees that need no help and can thrive as well as some suggest they magically do in the wild?

While I do not use oxalic acid, I think that many things go into helping your bees survive. That may be by equipment options, management options, and other factors intertwined with better genetics.

But the idea that feral bees, or any other bee, are at a point where they can survive on their own, is a message that many new beekeepers are finding to be incorrect. Of course, there are more than a few selling books, a certain ideology, or a certain hive setup, to come to your rescue when all that "I collected ferals and my bees will automatically thrive" fails. I've done it all, vinegar machines, FGMO, smallcell, feral bees, etc. And I have heard so many claims that if you use this comb, this hive, this treatment, this bee, that all your problems will go away. 

Of course, as many say, each beekeeper will do what they want, chase a dream, and go from one thing to another. And I will laugh as some beekeeper with less than a years worth of experience touts their success giving credit to some way of keeping bees.

Then I'll type out some long winded reply, while knowing that it makes no difference to me what some beekeeper across the country does or does not do. I'll ask myself why do I care if someone uses one hive or another? I'm not selling books. I'm not selling one ideology over another.

And so it goes........
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2013, 12:37:21 PM »

Hmmmm....how do the feral bees living in trees survive without somebody pouring oxalic acid on them?  huh huh huh

They don't.

Feral hives send 2 swarms a year. If they do not die, the earth will be soon full of bees, and it should have been full allready million years ago.

So 2 swarms means 200% more a year....

What happens in ten years when beehives propagate 3 fold every year

In 10 years 1 million colonies will be 20 billion

1   3   9   27   81   243   729   2 187   6 561   19 683
.

And after 21 years the colony amount will be 1 162 261 467 000 000
 = 1 million billion

I agree.

I have taken part in various feral bee studies. A few things we found were the further you get from the impact of humans, the fewer the bee colonies. Bees are hard to find in deep woods. They also are inflicted by the many problems that any other colonies have, and they die over winter. Bees thrive in areas where hedgerows, unused fields, roadsides weeds, and other land once cleared by humans, allow weeds to grow. But these are usually where beekeepers are also.

Of course many people WANT to believe magical things about feral bees. Some beekeepers have been promoting this for twenty years now. But yet, can anyone really show a survivor line of bees? We can show some improvement between mass produced weak genetic commercially produced bees and some other breeding operations, which is a good thing. But that is a different set of apples and oranges. What we do not have, unless you buy into some very inflated marketing and fluff, is a bunch of "true" survivor bees. You would think that we would all have them after all these years.

I laugh everytime I hear of some beekeeper thinking he is getting "survivor" bees from some barn or tree, in areas where beekeepers are plenty.

Think about it......the story line as always is "How do the feral bees living in trees survive without someone pouring oxalic acid on them?" And yet beekeepers have been collecting these "special" bees for 20 years. And nobody says "How do such and such bees survive without someone pouring oxalic acid on them?"  We always resort back to the bees that nobody seemingly has, and need to make comments about "survivor" bees that we always assume are thriving and been living in that tree for many years. Yet I challenge anyone to tell me where they can get survivor bees that need no help and can thrive as well as some suggest they magically do in the wild?

While I do not use oxalic acid, I think that many things go into helping your bees survive. That may be by equipment options, management options, and other factors intertwined with better genetics.

But the idea that feral bees, or any other bee, are at a point where they can survive on their own, is a message that many new beekeepers are finding to be incorrect. Of course, there are more than a few selling books, a certain ideology, or a certain hive setup, to come to your rescue when all that "I collected ferals and my bees will automatically thrive" fails. I've done it all, vinegar machines, FGMO, smallcell, feral bees, etc. And I have heard so many claims that if you use this comb, this hive, this treatment, this bee, that all your problems will go away.  

Of course, as many say, each beekeeper will do what they want, chase a dream, and go from one thing to another. And I will laugh as some beekeeper with less than a years worth of experience touts their success giving credit to some way of keeping bees.

Then I'll type out some long winded reply, while knowing that it makes no difference to me what some beekeeper across the country does or does not do. I'll ask myself why do I care if someone uses one hive or another? I'm not selling books. I'm not selling one ideology over another.

And so it goes........

Small cell did not work for you. I understand. You do not understand, I never said anything other than what I was doing. Success was never a claim. I did say the bees built comb on the small cell without any problems! I know you do not want to hear this, I know its a downer, still, its true. I wonder why you want to attack? You only sound bitter. So far I'm happy with results I have. I know of new beekeepers, on large cell,  who have new hives crash due to mites. This within weeks of starting out. All I have stated is, so far so good for me. No Mites! Could be, come May, I could look into my hives and find mite infestation! I will scream and then try to figure out what to do next. You tell me, What is wrong with A new beekeeper starting out with small cell frames? Not only do the bees do well building comb, they also are the cheapest frames Mann Lake sells.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 01:30:27 PM by Fox Creek » Logged
edward
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« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2013, 01:33:35 PM »

What is wrong with A new beekeeper starting out with small cell frames?

Nothing!

But some people just want to help you and you re bees get a good start and are trying to steer you in the right direction and make sure you have the right information so you're bees will bee and stay healthy.

mvh edward  tongue
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Fox Creek
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« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2013, 02:30:21 PM »

What is wrong with A new beekeeper starting out with small cell frames?

Nothing!

But some people just want to help you and you re bees get a good start and are trying to steer you in the right direction and make sure you have the right information so you're bees will bee and stay healthy.

mvh edward  tongue

Thank you Edward of Sweden! I'm always open to advise and like most, I will move in the direction of what works. I'm new to all of this and never intended to get so involved. Because of Varroa, I almost didn't get into beekeeping. I mean, it just didn't look good! After reading a couple of books claiming success around the common problems, I decided to give it a try. So here I am.

PS.   love the flailing, angry little guy! ...perhaps more appropriate for another poster.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2013, 02:56:39 PM »

 lau

« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 03:08:47 PM by BjornBee » Logged

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BlueBee
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« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2013, 03:24:05 PM »

So 2 swarms means 200% more a year....

What happens in ten years when beehives propagate 3 fold every year

In 10 years 1 million colonies will be 20 billion

1   3   9   27   81   243   729   2 187   6 561   19 683

Thanks for the math lesson there.  I guess that explains why I havenít had to treat yet. Wink  
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BjornBee
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« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2013, 04:00:42 PM »

So 2 swarms means 200% more a year....

What happens in ten years when beehives propagate 3 fold every year

In 10 years 1 million colonies will be 20 billion

1   3   9   27   81   243   729   2 187   6 561   19 683

Thanks for the math lesson there.  I guess that explains why I havenít had to treat yet. Wink  


Hey Bluebee, Finski was not explaining why you have not needed to treat your bees. He was trying to explain your incorrect assumption or suggestion that all feral bees survive without oxalic acid treatments. He was saying that feral colonies have a high mortality rate. I know they survive with about a 10% success rate. he was explaining that without this high mortality rate, we would be over run with bees. Not hard to understand.

I laughed off the last person that claimed they did nothing more then express their opinion on smallcell, even though their first post stated such items as beekeepers jumping up and down, and placing words in beekeepers mouths preempting any negative response to smallcell by saying they will say one thing or another. But it was not promoting.......  grin

But come on, Finski's comments were spot on. And yours were.....not! Unless you have some magical powers and actually know that all feral bees make it. Let me know if your going down that road. It might keep this interesting.
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edward
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« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2013, 04:21:01 PM »

I'm new to all of this and never intended to get so involved. Because of Varroa

Varroa isn't a problem as long as you keep track of it and treat it using simple easy tested methods.

Untreated it will take your bees and your neighbors bees, sad  Cry beecause its easily treated   Wink

mvh edward  tongue
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edward
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« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2013, 04:25:58 PM »

without this high mortality rate, we would be over run with bees

bee But what a wonderful world it would bee with all those bees  bee

mvh edward  tongue
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BlueBee
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« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2013, 04:35:24 PM »

But come on, Finski's comments were spot on. And yours were.....not! Unless you have some magical powers and actually know that all feral bees make it. Let me know if your going down that road. It might keep this interesting.
OK, fair enough.  As I said in an earlier post, drone culling and poor swarm management (periods of no brood) has worked for me so far.  Iím not opposed to considering other options if my existing methods fail at some point; which they might.  I do need to do better with my swarm management!

Edward, with so many bees, they might have replaced the mosquito. grin
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Finski
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« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2013, 05:00:25 PM »

and poor swarm management (periods of no brood) has worked for me so far.  Iím not opposed to considering other options if my existing methods fail at some point;

Sounds bad.... no brood during swarming period. It means that

- laying queen escapes with prior swarm and the foraging power vanish with it

- it takes 3 weeks that a new queen starts to lay. It takes 3 weeks more = 6 weeks that new bees start to born in the hive
So you have missed a swarm and 3 weeks' brood/new worker generation.
  The hive has not much able tp forage honey

- mites are in capped brood and they go into new brood after 4 weeks from swarming.

- that brood gap is not a big loss to mites. It is only 2-3 weeks delay in propagation

- Swarming is much more  bigger harm than normal mite load

************

If you make artificial swarm on time when you see queen cells, you save laying queen, swarm bees and prood.

.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2013, 05:16:49 PM »

Maybe I should just give up bee keeping and go into politics. Smiley
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iddee
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« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2013, 08:04:48 PM »

Maybe you should quit both and just go fishing. It sounds like these guys think you are all wet anyway.   fishhit lau
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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BlueBee
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« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2013, 11:26:36 PM »

Itís probably a good thing my bees donít read the forums. laugh  Iíve got more bees than I know what to do with and I donít treat, so maybe I should go on a fishing trip.  How are the fish down there in North Carolina? Smiley
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Finski
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« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2013, 02:36:58 AM »

Itís probably a good thing my bees donít read the forums. laugh  Iíve got more bees than I know what to do with and I donít treat,  ? Smiley

What to do with bees?  Have you heard about honey production?

To get a good yield join hives when main yield starts

There is a big distance from keeping hives alive and to harvest honey yields.

Keeping alive bees you do not need much knowledge because bees take care themselves.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2013, 03:15:27 AM »

I sure miss TBeek on threads like these  Smiley

And if I claim the sky is blue, I suppose that is wrong to.  lau
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Finski
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« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2013, 03:25:14 AM »



And if I claim the sky is blue, I suppose that is wrong to.   Cry

It is gray here and I suppose that it is now black there
.

time is here now 10:28 = midday
Sun rises  here 09.18. and goes down  15.37
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