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Author Topic: Good or bad idea?  (Read 3820 times)
Larooo
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« on: October 30, 2005, 02:15:17 PM »

I have one hive where I did not extract one of the upper shallow supers because it was very light W/ honey. Should I take this off for the winter or is it ok to leave this super on provided I remove the queen excluder?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2005, 04:26:30 PM »

If it's mostly empty, I'd pull it.  If it's mostly full and you want to leave it on for stores, then go ahead and pull the excluder.  But don't be surprised if the queen is up there come spring with a nice brood nest.
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Larooo
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2005, 05:31:08 PM »

Good point! Never thought of that one.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2005, 10:12:14 AM »

Since it's just a shallow, you could leave the excluder on.  But you'll need to keep an eye on it.  If the cluster moves up to feed on the shallow and the queen can't go, you might lose her.

If the weather stays warm, the bees might need the extra stores.  I'm a little worried about that myself now.
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Finsky
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2005, 12:38:34 PM »

Quote from: John G
Since it's just a shallow, you could leave the excluder on.  .


Can't understand, why it is so difficult to take off? It is only bad idea, nothing good.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2005, 12:57:07 PM »

Quote from: Finsky
Quote from: John G
Since it's just a shallow, you could leave the excluder on.  .


Can't understand, why it is so difficult to take off? It is only bad idea, nothing good.


What?
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Finsky
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2005, 01:03:25 PM »

Quote from: John G


What?


That "is it ok to leave this (light) super on provided I remove the queen excluder?"

Especially that exluder.

And it  is possible to put that light super to lowest. Bees take that food away from bottom.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2005, 01:19:34 PM »

Sorry, I have a headache and it's making normal conversation difficult.

There's no real reason to remove the queen excluder over the winter when there's a shallow on top of it.  If there were a  deep full of stores on top of it, then the cluster might use up their stores in the lower, move up past the queen excluder into the deep and leave the queen behind to freeze.

Since it's a shallow and the whole cluster most likely won't fit in it at one time, there's not as much chance of the queen being squeezed out and chilled.

A lot of folks refer to queen excluders as "honey excluders".  This is very true most of the time.  But in the winter, it won't stop the workers from moving up into stores.

Plus, if I were Laroo, I wouldn't want brood in my shallow unless I were going to change out my brood boxes to all shallows, or unless I didn't care.  Personally, I want honey production in my supers.  I don't want to extract around brood.  It's messy and wastes time.  But that's just my humble opinion.
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Finsky
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2005, 01:29:13 PM »

Quote from: John G

There's no real reason to remove the queen excluder over the winter .


Very odd  Tongue
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Anonymous
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2005, 01:56:49 PM »

Quote from: Finsky
Quote from: John G

There's no real reason to remove the queen excluder over the winter .


Very odd  Tongue


I've been called worse.   shocked   rolleyes  cheesy
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2005, 08:07:02 PM »

In my climate, leaving the excluder on generally ends up with a dead queen.
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Michael Bush
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Finsky
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2005, 09:38:09 PM »

Quote from: Michael Bush
In my climate, leaving the excluder on generally ends up with a dead queen.


* Same here. Allmost empty room above winter ball let warm escape from bees.
* When bees rise upp at spring after food, queen stays outside the ball.

*Many time nosema weaken the ball and only 1/4 of bees are alive after cleansing flight. In this case exluder will kill the colony.

It takes 30 seconds to take exluder away, less than  consider about it or keep in mind: Am I right?, yes no yes no.

And when you have a hive and you start beekeeping, you should look inside the hive very often to learn what is going on in the hive. Exluder does not help in this. cry  Cool  rolleyes  wink
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Anonymous
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« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2005, 01:28:58 PM »

rolleyes  For crying out loud, Finsky.  Give it a rest, will ya?  There's more than one opinion here, obviously.  And that's the creedo of beekeeping.  "Ask 10 beekeepers a question and get 10 different answers."

"Am I right?, yes no yes no"  

Does it make that much difference to you?  I do things differently than you and my bees are just fine.  As a matter of fact, I HAVE to do things differently because my climate is different than yours.

Jeez.  This is pointless.  I'm outta here.
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Finsky
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« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2005, 01:49:33 PM »

Quote from: John G
:
"Am I right?, yes no yes no"  

.


Here are a lot of odd advices.
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Larooo
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2005, 02:36:05 PM »

All very good points to ponder! I'm with John G. on the 10 opinions & answer thing. One more question though to the Finsky, Are those really bees all over your face ?
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Finsky
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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2005, 02:49:07 PM »

Quote from: Larooo
question though to the Finsky, Are those really bees all over your face ?


Yes, they are. When swarm leaved the hive, I took wing clipped queen and I put into gage and it to hang in my neck. Swarm gathered on my head.
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2005, 09:37:50 PM »

I was asked by someone to review this post and reply to the topic, so here goes.

But I'll cover the answers so that the person requesting my input shall get a responce to all his/her questions here, in the context of the post.

1) I don't think a queen excluder has ANY BUSINESS in a hive in the Winter for two major reasons - it is a HEAT SINK which steals any warmth from the cluster and also radiated cold into the cluster. I think it is a bad idea to not remove excluders because of those two reasons in particular.

2) In these forums, if you choose to NOT like the answer you receive from ANY OTHER MEMBER, just ignore that member's reply and go about life - I value the membership and the forum, but I wouldn't let it ruin my day, surely your life is more important than beating a dead horse.

3) Sorry if I did not reply to your PM, it was overlooked by me and I'm sorry - I have a practice to reply to ALL MAIL or MESSAGES directed toward me and I'm sorry your mail slipped between my cracks - right now, I'm fighting off computer generated members with websites to porn and other graphic adult content, sorry if I put my available time to issues that reflect or effect the entire membership, but as Admin. I think it a priority to the members.

4) If you think you are wasting your time here, then (and please don't take this as offensive) but don't let the forum door hit you in the ass! Your experience here is a give and take, you ask questions and get answers - no one promises you a perfect answer to any question, and ALL OF LIFE has 10 different answers to the same questions, because we all do things differently and if you expect COOKIE-CUTTER ANSWERS to your questions: 1) you will get bored very fast 2) not learn anything through other's mistakes and 3 waste the time of people who enjoy a good argument over the use of equipment and chemical/natural treatments.

The forums are made to interact - your posting here had a bit "rough and tumble" feel to them, which often leads to confrontation or AT THE VERY LEAST you will get answers that are geared to further STIR the POT!

So, you wanted an answer, you got it. Take the excluders out on the first warm days you can (in my humble opinion) whether we are talking deeps or shallows really doesn't matter - it is like sticking your tongue on a cold lamp post on a freezing cold day, you are going to get stuck there because the lamp post is a heat sink JUST as the queen excluder is and it will cause discomfort to your bees while in place, limit their ability to manouver about and most of all - cause them to burn MORE fuel (honey) to keep the cluster warm.

If you disagree with me, that is fine too - but I'm not writing to egg you on, I'm writing to give an opinion in the best English I can. If my logic doesn't make sense to you, then we are definitely VERY DIFFERENT BEEKEEPERS and maybe you are right, the forum is a waste of your time.

With nearly 1000 members, and only about 100 active and 40 mega-active, you will see many of the same dedicated gang which has made this the number one listed forum in the world. I'd read between the words, get your prejudice views and toss them aside, and do all you can to learn from people with decades (if not generations) of experience.

I hope this answers your question and I hope you decide to stick around - but don't ask questions if you don't expect to get answers, and if answers that differ from what you hope to read are posted and you find them insulting - maybe you need to curl up with a good novel, watch some TV or play a game of chess on a gameboy: because if I have found out through 20,000 posts in these forums, people can argue on nearly any question, the trick is to learn how to AGREE to DISAGREE and I hope you choose to do that, it will probably save you from high blood pressure, strokes or heart attacks. The old CHILL PILL still comes in handy, just check your junk email box, people are selling them in many many shapes and sizes  wink
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Jack Parr
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« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2005, 06:57:12 AM »

Quote from: Finsky
Quote from: Larooo
question though to the Finsky, Are those really bees all over your face ?


Yes, they are. When swarm leaved the hive, I took wing clipped queen and I put into gage and it to hang in my neck. Swarm gathered on my head.


Are you saying that the queen with clipped wings wanted to leave with the swarm but could not?

Where or how did you find the queen?

Did you suffer any stings?  What did you do with that swarm? Cool
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Finsky
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« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2005, 09:51:05 AM »

Quote from: Jack Parr

Are you saying that the queen with clipped wings wanted to leave with the swarm but could not?

Where or how did you find the queen?




Only one wing should be cutted. If two are cutted, wings are in balance and queen may fly.

After 30 minutes bees become unsatiefied that queen cannot fly with them. They return to hive.

You may find it when qqueen crawls in front of hive. After a while it goes further and bees leave it into bushes and they return to the hive.

After this kind of case you find that hive does have larvas. So you know that bees have tried to swarm and they wait for new queen to emerge.

Quote

Did you suffer any stings?  What did you do with that swarm? Cool



I remember that I got 2 stings when I pressed under my arm.

I shaked bees away, I put queen into hive and bees went after queen. It cannot escape.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2005, 02:06:56 PM »

If you clip a wing it will slow them down.  Eventually they will leave with one of the virgins if you aren't paying attention.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
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