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Author Topic: New Queen Already? Is it possible?  (Read 1472 times)

Offline Bees In Miami

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New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« on: December 24, 2012, 08:25:41 PM »
Hi all... Well, I did a split on 12/12/12....(just a coincidence with the date, not planned).   The bees were really crammed in to a couple strong hives, and I truly believe there is no way they would have waited until spring to swarm.  I put two FULL (and I do mean FULL) frames of brood (capped), a frame of  capped brood, larvae, and eggs, and capped honey and some pollen on a fourth frame.  The frames included some drone brood, but I did not see evidence of a queen cell, unless I missed a swarm cell or two on the bottom of the frames??    (And yes, I am positive I left the queens in their original colonies).  There was very little (virtually none) activity from this hive until a few days ago, when I believe I had bunches of young bees orienting.  There has been increasing activity the last few days from the split.  Today, going out to my hives for my 'relaxation therapy', and a bit of beer, I saw bees going into the new split WITH pollen.  It wasn't just one bee...  It was many.  So...short of breaking into the hive, do you think I have a Queen??  Already??  Is this possible?   I don't want to start my happy dance yet, but from my very limited experience, especially when you know it's a queen-less hive from the start, would pollen be brought in already if there was no Queen present??   :?  You're allowed to burst my bubble...lol...I can handle it.  But I do admit I was exceptionally excited to see pollen being brought in for the first time today.  Your input and insight is greatly appreciated!!!  Thanks in advance.   Merry Christmas, and Happy Holidays to all. 

Offline edward

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2012, 09:02:38 PM »
When the eggs beecome larvae they want food, = honey and pollen.

When they don't have any open cells with larvae they wont need pollen.

mvh edward  :-P

Offline iddee

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2012, 09:30:54 PM »
Today would be day 15 in the new queen cycle. 12 days plus starting with a larva in it's third day. The new queen should be emerging tomorrow. The bees will not wait for her to start laying. They will be storing pollen, as they know she will need it soon.
You should have eggs in 6 to 20 days. I know that is a long span, but that's bees. She will start laying from the 21st day from egg to the 35th day.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2012, 11:22:22 PM »
The big question is, are there any drones in your area. If you don't have drones a new queen cannot lay fertilized eggs. If there are no drones I would recombine the hives until spring. With no drones I doubt that they would swarm. Most of my hives are at swarm capacity but I don't think they will swarm because it's winter.
Jim
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Offline Bees In Miami

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 05:09:43 AM »
Thanks for the input...It all makes perfect sense!  There were a good bit of drone cells present on the frames I transferred (in fact, one drone was popping his head out of his cell as I was making the split), so I am hoping for a successful mating flight!  I've been chomping at the bit to get into the hive, but I guess based on iddee's dates, I will give it another week so the queen can harden, and hopefully mate.  If I don't see evidence of a laying queen by mid/late Jan, I can re-combine, but these girls have been seriously kicking butt, and I have all faith in them.  Plus, we are having a very mild 'winter'...only two cold days thus far...knock on wood!  Thanks again for the sound input, and iddee, thanks for the specific time line.  I will keep an eye on the activity, and react accordingly.  So far though, so good, I think!  Today, the two strongest hives were still doing some bearding, so I think/hope I did the right thing by splitting.  This forum is fantastic!!  Thanks again!

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2012, 05:29:55 AM »
When you are dealing with new queens, you need to give them a chance to get established. Inspecting the hive  before she gets chance to start laying will often times cause the bees to ball her. Then you end up with a queen less hive with no eggs for them to make a new queen. She needs about 2 weeks for mating so give her 3 weeks to prove she is a good queen. Like us, they blame the queen for any problems in the hive.
Jim
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Offline Bees In Miami

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2012, 07:07:09 AM »
sawdstmker.....Errggg...I hear you loud and clear, and I appreciate and understand.  I will just let the bees do what bees do best for a few more weeks then.  I am certainly not tooting my inexperienced horn, but I am getting enough confidence to read the mite boards and can get a fairly good idea what's going on in the hive.  I will just use that for the next few weeks.  Thanks again...I will pull back on the reigns!!!  (But dang...it's hard!)   :-D  "Let the bees do what the bees will do!"  Thanks again. 

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2012, 09:40:40 AM »
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm

An emergency queen will be started from an already hatched larvae and that is 3 1/2 to 4 days old.  That leaves 12 days until emergence, so you could have a new queen in 12 days.  But she probably won't be laying for another two weeks after that... assuming there are drones flying... which there may be there in FL, there most certainly are NOT here in Nebraska with subzero temps...
Michael Bush
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Offline edward

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 12:27:11 PM »
I don't have the exact number in my head but don't drones need 3 weeks or more to mature and bee sexually active?
Also the weather has to bee favorable with warm weather so they can fly and mate.

mvh edward  :-P

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 02:33:50 PM »
sawdstmker.....Errggg...I hear you loud and clear, and I appreciate and understand.  I will just let the bees do what bees do best for a few more weeks then.  I am certainly not tooting my inexperienced horn, but I am getting enough confidence to read the mite boards and can get a fairly good idea what's going on in the hive.  I will just use that for the next few weeks.  Thanks again...I will pull back on the reigns!!!  (But dang...it's hard!)   :-D  "Let the bees do what the bees will do!"  Thanks again.  

No problem. I was in your shoes just 3 years ago.
I agree with Ed, I suspect if you have drones, they are immature.
I have not seen drones for at least 6 weeks and that is with an observation  hive that stays warm inside of the house and the bees are still bringing in food.
Scott, your are a lot closer. Are you seeing drones and for how long?

Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline marktrl

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 02:56:55 PM »
I haven't seen any drones, but I did see about a fist size cluster of drone brood in one of my hives about a week ago.

Offline iddee

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 07:22:14 PM »
She had drones emerging the day she split, along with much more drone brood. The rule is, you can start a queen when the drones pupa have purple eyes. She is days ahead of that, so she will have drones when the new queen flies.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline Bees In Miami

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Re: New Queen Already? Is it possible?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2012, 03:50:36 AM »
Thanks again to all, and yes iddee, drones were literally emerging as I made the split.  I had several fist fulls of drone brood on the transferred comb.  Thank you for a bit of reassurance.  I KNOW the time of year was, in textbooks or logic, wrong, but I followed my bees.  If it comes back to bite me (and my bees) in the butt, then it does.  I would rather have reacted to them wrong now, than to let them struggle in a tree bound swarm over winter.   I hope the bees don't prove me wrong, but they may!!     Thanks for all input!  Hoping for the best!  Thanks to all, once again,for the input and advice....it is truly appreciated!