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Author Topic: Hive nail question: will they rust?  (Read 2073 times)
Bee Curious
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« on: December 23, 2012, 04:26:56 PM »

Hi all,

I've been enjoying putting together my first hive: 6 mediums, frames, slatted rack, etc.  This is the first project in my life where I've done so much nailing and boy, have I gotten good at it.  

I got my woodware from Brushy Mountain and the nails they sent are very shiny--almost like chrome.  Are these what they call "smooth galvanized"?  Do they rust at all?  Is it worth me dabbing metal primer on them before I prime and paint the hives, or is that overkill?

« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 11:42:42 PM by Bee Curious » Logged
AllenF
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2012, 05:20:40 PM »

The galvanizing will protect it from rust, for a while anyways.   It depends on a whole lot of variables.   I have tons of bodies that you can see all the nails through the whilte paint.   But mostly all nails will outlast the wood.   Don't worry about it.   They will do fine.   
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JRH
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« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2012, 08:03:11 PM »

Don't use nails at all.  Use screws made for outdoor use.  Titebond II or III and 3 screws each way for each corner is all you need.  Nails?  Do cabinetmakers use them?
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edward
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« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2012, 08:22:10 PM »

A little rust or galvanisation will make the nails stay put and hold everything together tightly  Wink

mvh edward  tongue
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danno
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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2012, 09:09:50 PM »

glue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I nail with 2" galv from both directions but they only hold them tight for the glue to dry. Frames really need glue.  I use titebrond II with acid brush to apply. For frames titebond and 1/4" crown staples 1" long
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edward
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2012, 09:28:01 PM »

One does not disqualify the other  Wink

mvh edward  tongue
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Joe D
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2012, 10:17:14 PM »

As with most things its just your preference, some nail with glue, some screw with glue and some staple with glue, I think most use glue.  Get them square.  The boxes I built last winter I glued and nailed, can't remember if the were galvanized or not.  I didn't primer, but I did put 3 or 4 coats of paint.  I'm sure it will be fine, and on the supers you can touch them up in the winter when ever needed.  Good luck Bee Curious.



Joe
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Bee Curious
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2012, 10:56:10 PM »

Thanks, all.  I did glue everything, and I did square everything. I made a jig for making the frames, and that made it much easier.  I was going to screw the boxes together, but ended up nailing them.  I'm sure it's overkill, but I'm filling any little openings that didn't get filled with glue on the box joints with wood filler, so they'll paint up nicely.  I intend to get some high quality mis-tint paint (cheap) and give it a couple of coats after priming. 
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danno
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« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 08:38:42 AM »

Being in IL you dont need to paint the usual white or light colors.   In the midwest we dont have enough HOT days of summer to require light colors but we do have a long enough winter that dark colors help draw abit of the suns heat.  I paint all mine olive drab.  I can spot white hives 1/2 mile off the road in the back of fields but mine just blend in.   
Also on the frame jig.   I dont use one anymore because I make frames faster without one.   This is my system.   I start the clock, grab 5 top bars and lay them top down on the bench.  I grab 10 end bars, tap them on there side and one end to line them up.   I use titebond II in a small jar with a acid brush.  Holding the endbars in one hand I heavily glue the top and bottom grooves.  I install all 10 on the five top bars.  Using a small square I hold between a top bar and one end bar and shoot a 1/4 staple through the end angling down into the top bar.  After all 10 ends bars are glued and stapled I slide a sheet on foundation in and install the bottom bar in the preglued slot.  I shot one staple in each end.   I repeat this again before stopping the clock.   This 10 frames and I do them foundation installed in just under 5 minutes. 
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johnauck
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 08:45:06 PM »

I use general purpose 40mm gal flatheads for the boxes, glued with PVA. Painted on the outside only. Oldest box is about 4 years, still holding fast.

With the frames I use 35mm cement coated nails, from my bee supplier and PVA glue. The nails are a little long, and if nailed dead centre they tend to block the hole for the wire.


This 10 frames and I do them foundation installed in just under 5 minutes. 

That is impressive, I timed myself building a single frame (nails, eyelets, wire, foundation) and the best I could do was about 8mins. Guess I need to work on a system!

Do you use wire in your frames?

I was going to try using 32mm brads, but I still have a stack of cement coated nails to use up.


john
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Bee Curious
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« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 09:35:16 PM »

Being in IL you dont need to paint the usual white or light colors.   In the midwest we dont have enough HOT days of summer to require light colors but we do have a long enough winter that dark colors help draw abit of the suns heat.  I paint all mine olive drab. 

.....  This 10 frames and I do them foundation installed in just under 5 minutes. 

Danno, you sound like a frame building machine.  I don't have an air nailer/stapler.  My hubby never understands if I want a power tool (but when he wants one, it's another story.) 

As for paint color, last summer I matched the color of the surrounding Russian Sage plants leaves to a BM paint chip and I'm going to try to paint the hive as close to that color as possible, so it blends in. 
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danno
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« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2012, 08:10:19 AM »

Being in IL you dont need to paint the usual white or light colors.   In the midwest we dont have enough HOT days of summer to require light colors but we do have a long enough winter that dark colors help draw abit of the suns heat.  I paint all mine olive drab. 

.....  This 10 frames and I do them foundation installed in just under 5 minutes. 
Danno, you sound like a frame building machine.  I don't have an air nailer/stapler.  My hubby never understands if I want a power tool (but when he wants one, it's another story.) 

As for paint color, last summer I matched the color of the surrounding Russian Sage plants leaves to a BM paint chip and I'm going to try to paint the hive as close to that color as possible, so it blends in. 

Do you have  Menard's in IL    I bought my cheap stapler there about 4 years ago on sale for 19.00 reg 29.00  harbor freight most likely has a cheapy also.  Staples run about 6.00 a 1000


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little john
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« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2012, 10:18:58 AM »

A little rust or galvanisation will make the nails stay put and hold everything together tightly  Wink
Spot on - rusty nails grip a lot better than shiny ones. I bought a large quantity of heavily rusted nails at a boot (bring-and-buy) sale recently - bloke thought I was nuts. But they were very thin section oval nails - perfect for holding small stuff together without splitting until the glue sets. Half a cupful of Citric Acid and a short soak later, and I've got me several pounds of hard-to-find-these-days nails - lovely rough surfaces with just a hint of dusty orange betraying their history - for almost no money.  Well pleased.

LJ


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Bee Curious
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« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2012, 08:49:48 PM »



Do you have  Menard's in IL    I bought my cheap stapler there about 4 years ago on sale for 19.00 reg 29.00  harbor freight most likely has a cheapy also.  Staples run about 6.00 a 1000


[/quote]

Danno, yes we have Menard's nearby AND Harbor Freight, tho the nearest HF is about a 30 min. drive in good traffic. 
Do you mean an electric or pneumatic stapler, or a manual one?  I have a manual one, but it IMHO doesn't have long enough staples for doing frames.  Don't they have to be quite deep?

I will use that stapler to affix my screen on my SBB, though.
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danno
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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2012, 07:28:54 AM »



Do you have  Menard's in IL    I bought my cheap stapler there about 4 years ago on sale for 19.00 reg 29.00  harbor freight most likely has a cheapy also.  Staples run about 6.00 a 1000



Danno, yes we have Menard's nearby AND Harbor Freight, tho the nearest HF is about a 30 min. drive in good traffic. 


Do you mean an electric or pneumatic stapler, or a manual one?  I have a manual one, but it IMHO doesn't have long enough staples for doing frames.  Don't they have to be quite deep?

I will use that stapler to affix my screen on my SBB, though.
[/quote]

Pneumatic 18 ga 1/4 " crown stapler that will shoot up to 1" staples
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Jim 134
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2012, 08:39:16 AM »

Hi all,

I've been enjoying putting together my first hive: 6 mediums, frames, slatted rack, etc.  This is the first project in my life where I've done so much nailing and boy, have I gotten good at it.  

I got my woodware from Brushy Mountain and the nails they sent are very shiny--almost like chrome.  Are these what they call "smooth galvanized"?  Do they rust at all?  Is it worth me dabbing metal primer on them before I prime and paint the hives, or is that overkill?



IMHO All stapler and nails and screw will rust (But may be not if stainless steel ones) and at will but $$$$.

If you can find SS stapler and nails and screw  huh 


         BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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