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Author Topic: Keep your hands off my rights and my guns!  (Read 13582 times)
luvin honey
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« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2012, 02:21:51 PM »

Our police officer friend will need far more training when he retires to retain his conceal-carry permit than anyone in our state needs to get up front, or at all.

I don't know what % should be called passing, but I'd consider it pretty basic that if you want to carry a deadly weapon in public you've at least proven your ability to use it well.

I used to teach CPR. You simply cannot work at a hospital or clinic without being certified, and you need to get re-certified every 1-2 years, including a test on a manikin. Seems pretty commonsense to me.
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iddee
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« Reply #61 on: December 18, 2012, 02:46:18 PM »

I agree with the training aspect, but no training or testing will ever demand or obtain 100%. A passing grade, meaning in the top 50% of the ones tested, or something to that effect, would be great. Here we are required to go through both classroom and range training and testing before a cc permit is issued. That training and testing is after the background check for legal and mental problems.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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luvin honey
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« Reply #62 on: December 18, 2012, 04:24:13 PM »

I don't think 50% should be a passing score. We're talking life or death here. I'll have to ask my son when he gets home, but I believe high 60% is passing for middle school, so certainly gun skills should be even higher than social studies. 100% might be high, too, but again it's literally life or death, especially when you're talking about people carrying to protect themselves in public places or to take out the bad guy.

In WI, they proposed significant training, but if I'm remembering correctly it became completely optional. I'm seriously uncomfortable with that.

I'm also not comfortable with people's ability to accurately assess a situation. Let's say we have that CO movie incident, and someone from the lobby comes into the theater. Who IS the bad guy, if there are 4 people all shooting? 
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The pedigree of honey
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iddee
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« Reply #63 on: December 18, 2012, 04:54:25 PM »

""or something to that effect""

That's why I included this phrase. I wasn't advocating a particular score, but it is good to see you agree with me in basic principle.

In the seconds it would take to quell the attack, I don't think there would be many entering.

""Police respond in minutes when seconds count.""
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
luvin honey
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« Reply #64 on: December 18, 2012, 06:34:31 PM »

Are we talking about police? I was under the impression we were talking about citizens, those who think it's a great idea to be armed so they can prevent the next mass shooting. They would already be there.
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iddee
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« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2012, 07:02:10 PM »

Aren't police citizens. I'm talking about every able bodied, mentally stable citizen who is willing to train and carry. The purpose is not to shoot, but to put enough fear into the perpetrator to keep him away in the first place. If he knows or thinks there will be guns awaiting his arrival, he won't go there. I have carried for years and everybody in this small town knows it. I have never had to draw it. That is the goal.

The bottom line is just a popular saying.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
divemaster1963
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« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2012, 09:17:31 PM »



Most cars can’t go 140 MPH; the tires are not rated for that speed so the designers place a high speed fuel cutoff calibration in the engine controller to cut off the fuel above SAFE speeds.  Safety is highly regulated in automobiles; not in guns.

Now if teens are saving up all their welfare money rolleyes and buying Corvettes, they might be able to do 140mph.  The Corvettes have much higher speed fuel cut cals.  However they’re also one of the safest cars in existence.

[/quote]

I believe he was stating that speed limits tops are set at 70 mph in most of the US. cars do have the high speed govs but are set rated normally at 100-110 mph. what constitutes safe speed? You can go buy a 29.00 programmer for most cars and change the top gov. speed setting. should these be band as lethal weapons due to the fact that it alters the intention that the Government has set as safe for US citizens? It's all on where due we draw the line at commen sense and gov. intrusion into a person personal decision.

John
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iddee
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« Reply #67 on: December 18, 2012, 09:30:12 PM »

If the cars are governed so well, why are people dieing in car crashes every day?

I'll tell you. The government does most all safety back assards. They make car safety rules and people die. They make gun safety rules and people die. When are they going to get away from population control and do something about "SAVING" lives?
If they can keep killing 50,000 or so every year, the unemployment and social security recipients go down by 50,000 or so every year. And the citizens applaud them for making all these so called safety rules. 
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
luvin honey
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« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2012, 09:44:59 PM »

Here's what happened before and after seat belts:
http://injurylaw.labovick.com/2011/06/articles/personal-injury-1/increased-seat-belt-use-saves-lives-cdc-study/
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divemaster1963
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« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2012, 09:49:06 PM »



yes but here is the kicker. the Grandfather law: if a car was manufactured before the law on seat belts was enacted It Does not apply. If you fix a early 50's or 60's car seatbelts were options not required.
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VolunteerK9
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« Reply #70 on: December 18, 2012, 10:02:49 PM »

The clip/mag number of rounds rule is just plain ole stupid. After practicing reload drills over and over on the range , one can get quite proficient at it. People can blame society as a whole all the way down to one single bully at school, the fanatical Muslims or the Left Wing Christians, for our countries demise into the mire. My .02 is we need a more severe and immediate punishment system in place in our courts. Death penalty cases are drawn out for decades so really except for the families involved no one else is even concerned with it anymore when/if the case come back up again..

Guns dont commit the crimes..The idiot behind the trigger is the problem.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #71 on: December 18, 2012, 10:08:42 PM »

So, how do you plan to punish all these mass killers who kill themselves immediately afterwards?
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The pedigree of honey
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iddee
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« Reply #72 on: December 18, 2012, 10:09:34 PM »

Luvin Honey, I love your links. According to the article, there are 2,252,571 people treated in emergency rooms every year in the USA for injuries sustained in auto crashes.

""Every 14 seconds in the United States an adult is treated in an emergency room for motor vehicle crash-related injuries.""

Over 1/3 of the people killed in car crashes were wearing seatbelts.

"According to the CDC, 63% of people killed in motor vehicle accidents were not wearing seat belts."

And you accept this as sufficient safety standards. That's exactly what I was trying to point out. Thank You again.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
Keith13
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« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2012, 12:57:32 PM »

So, how do you plan to punish all these mass killers who kill themselves immediately afterwards?

I guess we could pick them up and rekill them.

IMHO I am glad they kill themselves it saves us tons of money defending them and later housing them. Plus they do not get the fame that they want, like the killer at Ft Hood the Aurora wacko are now receiving.

We just need to find away to convince them to kill themselves first then do the mass shooting...

Keith
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luvin honey
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« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2012, 01:03:18 PM »

Luvin Honey, I love your links. According to the article, there are 2,252,571 people treated in emergency rooms every year in the USA for injuries sustained in auto crashes.

""Every 14 seconds in the United States an adult is treated in an emergency room for motor vehicle crash-related injuries.""

Over 1/3 of the people killed in car crashes were wearing seatbelts.

"According to the CDC, 63% of people killed in motor vehicle accidents were not wearing seat belts."

And you accept this as sufficient safety standards. That's exactly what I was trying to point out. Thank You again.
And I don't recall saying that. My point was when vehicular death rates were unacceptably high, we introduced seatbelts and the death rates decreased. Are you suggesting outlawing vehicles? That would give us a death rate of 0, after all.

Agree, Keith, or get them the help they seem to need before anyone is killed, including them. As for those who are purely evil and unable to be helped, I don't know.
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The pedigree of honey
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #75 on: December 19, 2012, 01:18:25 PM »

>Are you suggesting people owning firearms should not be responsible for keeping them locked up? Is that too invasive of a person's rights.

I have had my door kicked in, in the middle of the night on four occasions in my life.  On all of those occasions I confronted the person with a loaded gun.  In NONE of those occasions would there have been time to even load the gun, let alone, unlock the safe, remove the gun, load the gun and THEN confront the criminal.  Yes, it is FAR too invasive to require me to lock up my guns as I would have NO means of defending myself.  Except, (sarcasm intended) in the cae of the polite criminal who knocks and informs me so that I have time to retrieve and load my gun...
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Michael Bush
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luvin honey
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« Reply #76 on: December 19, 2012, 02:11:16 PM »

Yikes, Michael--It sounds like you live in a very dangerous area. Is it meth? Hopefully you don't have young kids in your home with loaded guns readily available.
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The pedigree of honey
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iddee
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« Reply #77 on: December 19, 2012, 02:23:05 PM »

"My point was when vehicular death rates were unacceptably high, "

right there, you are saying that they are acceptably low. That's one place you said it.

I'm saying built in roll cages hidden in the body of the cars would do 10 times the good, but would remove the revenue from thousands of seat belt tickets, so they aren't going to do that. The seat belt laws aren't for safety, they are for revenue.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
S.Rummings
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« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2012, 03:54:48 PM »

I'm saying built in roll cages hidden in the body of the cars would do 10 times the good, but would remove the revenue from thousands of seat belt tickets, so they aren't going to do that. The seat belt laws aren't for safety, they are for revenue.

I have been an EMT for over 23 years and have seen many car crashes. I can tell you for a fact, based on both my training & my experience that modern vehicles do have hidden roll cages. It is rare the roof intrudes into the passenger compartment far enough to kill someone and when it does happen it is usually because there is a semi-truck or tri-axle on top of the car. Even then, I have seen people survive in cars that appear to be crushed flat until the other vehicle is lifted off of them. I have seen seat belts save lives many many times. I have seen people who wore seat belts crawl out of a completely destroyed car with minor injuries and I have seen people who didn't wear seatbelts killed in cars with relatively minor damage.

I still don't see any way at all this relates to gun rights but I thought I would give you the perspective of someone who has seen first hand that seat belts do work.
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iddee
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« Reply #79 on: December 19, 2012, 05:34:08 PM »

You write like a politician. True, but not complete enough to show the true picture.

23 years ago, none had them. When did they start putting them in? 2, 3, maybe 4 years ago? I have walked away from 3 wrecks totally destroying the vehicle. All three had the roof touching the seat. I was NOT wearing a seat belt either time.
If you were honest, I am sure you have also seen people crawl out of destroyed vehicles when not wearing seat belts, and have unstrapped dead bodies from seemingly minor wrecks, but you're leaving those out.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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