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Author Topic: well, no kidding!  (Read 2430 times)
kathyp
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« on: December 09, 2012, 03:56:26 PM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/kristof-profiting-from-a-childs-illiteracy.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=opinion&

the observation about kids on SSI is a good one too.  as an example,if a kid is diagnosed as ADD or ADHD the parents can apply for SSI disability for them....i know this because my granddaughter was diagnose and the school immediately suggested they my son apply for disability for her.  i could not believe it.  he didn't, but the idea that he could, and that he was encouraged to, was pretty amazing.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 07:58:06 PM »

What is ADD?  When I was a kid there wasn't such a thing!
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iddee
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2012, 08:34:21 PM »

ADD is the result of too few spankings.......
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2012, 09:36:50 PM »

 grin

probably most of the time that's true.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 12:25:58 PM »

I actually know of some parents who think their main parenting responsibility is to get all their children on SSI so they are "set for life." ADD is the way they do it. Quite a few people know how to work our broken system.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 04:41:28 PM »

Tell me where it says a word about ADD.
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2012, 04:53:20 PM »

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Tell me where it says a word about ADD.

that came out of my comments about my granddaughter.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 05:06:45 PM »

I read the link (yes, I did Smiley) and I was reading about learning disabilities, not ADD. I've had experience with ADD in the family and have never, ever heard of anyone being offered anything, including IEPs, much less SSI.

I will say, though, that we're starting to work with a family that seems a bit too invested in their children having problems. This is just only after a 1-hour observation, so probably not fair quite yet, but we'll be working with them a lot more in the future and will have a better chance to assess it.

As always, I say fix the system rather than trash the whole thing. People should not have to choose between their children doing well academically and putting food on the table. And our help should always aim at getting people independent of it.
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The pedigree of honey
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2012, 05:11:41 PM »

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As always, I say fix the system rather than trash the whole thing.


there is a whole industry dedicated to getting people on SSI disability.  there are any number of reasons why.  one of the reasons school push it is that they get more federal money for "disabled" kids.  they don't care about the lable. they care about the money and when the parents see it as free money, why not?

then there's this:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/03/social-security-disability_n_1474621.html

the system can't survive like this.  you want to preserve it for those it was intended to help.  so do i. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2012, 05:13:01 PM »

http://www.socialsecurity-disability.org/disabling-conditions/mental-disorders

I don't see ADD as a qualifying condition for SSI on this list.
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The pedigree of honey
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iddee
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2012, 05:44:44 PM »

""Organic Mental Disorder

Fluctuations in emotions and their intensity (e.g., explosive temper outbursts, sudden crying, etc.) and impairment in impulse control;

Marked difficulties in maintaining social functioning; AND/OR
Marked difficulties in maintaining concentration, persistence,""

Those look alot like ADD symptoms to me, and they were copied from luvin honey's link.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2012, 05:48:06 PM »

Organic Mental Disorders
To qualify for disability benefits with organic mental disorders, the medical evidence needs to show that your disorder has continued for two years or more despite treatment and that it hinders you from performing even basic work functions. Essentially, you need to show that you cannot function outside of a highly supportive environment. Alternately, you may qualify if you have at least one condition from each of the columns in the chart below:

Time and place disorientation Significant limitation of daily living activities
Impaired memory (short or long term) Significant limitations in social situations
Hallucinations or delusions Difficulty concentrating or keeping pace
Personality changes Extended and repeated periods of decompensation
Mood disturbances Loss of 15 or more points of IQ
Lability of emotions
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The pedigree of honey
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---Emily Dickinson
iddee
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« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 05:55:53 PM »

Impaired memory (short or long term)    Significant limitations in social situations
Mood disturbances                                      Difficulty concentrating or keeping pace

I would say ADD has at least two from each column.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
luvin honey
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« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 06:42:30 PM »

Maybe I'm reading the site wrong, but it appears to be aimed at adults who can't function well enough to work. I'm not finding anything about children and SSI. I cannot fathom a reason they would qualify for SSI for a learning issue. And I've never, ever heard of that.
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The pedigree of honey
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kathyp
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« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2012, 06:47:20 PM »

Quote
Maybe I'm reading the site wrong, but it appears to be aimed at adults who can't function well enough to work. I'm not finding anything about children and SSI. I cannot fathom a reason they would qualify for SSI for a learning issue. And I've never, ever heard of that.

don't know what to tell you.  it's out there and it's a big thing right now.  all the school has to do is to the evaluation right up correctly and the kid qualifies.  parents get paid.  school gets paid.  kid gets labeled.  all is well. 

it's a racket to be sure, but there are lawyers and doctors standing by to assist.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2012, 06:49:09 PM »

http://forum.socialsecurityhome.com/showthread.php/817-Can-a-child-with-ADD-ADHD-get-SSI

this is like the 2nd google result for 'how do i get my child on SSI?'
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2012, 07:15:38 PM »

Well, crap! I sure hope "marked impairment" is actually required. Hard to imagine why a family would need SSI if the school is dealing with it, though. I can definitely see why districts get extra aid for learning disabilities. I've spent enough time in the school to know that plenty of kids don't fit into the typical learning mold and genuinely need some extra help, which the teacher can't give and requires an aid or learning disability specialist.
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The pedigree of honey
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kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2012, 07:20:34 PM »

Quote
Hard to imagine why a family would need SSI if the school is dealing with it, though

i doubt need has much to do with it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2012, 10:07:07 AM »

Maybe I'm reading the site wrong, but it appears to be aimed at adults who can't function well enough to work. I'm not finding anything about children and SSI. I cannot fathom a reason they would qualify for SSI for a learning issue. And I've never, ever heard of that.

What I have learned from your statement is that you (and the others who responded the same way) probably work for a living. You probably never considered any other option.

If you lived in public housing, 2 doors down from your parents, and across the parking lot from your children and grandparents, I guarantee you would understand this very well and there is no doubt you would have heard of it. This is one case where your lack of knowledge shows you are a good person.

As for me, my job forces me to deal with these people every day. I guess it is no wonder I want to be surrounded by creatures who actually work themselves to death.
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iddee
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« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2012, 10:10:51 AM »

 goodpost
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
luvin honey
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« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2012, 11:38:20 AM »

I'm sure that's the case many times, S. rummings, and it sounds like you deal with it on a daily basis. Again, could we just try to fix the system and take care of these gaps? It sounds like most of us genuinely want a safety net for the truly needy and would appreciate a more efficient system.

Where I have to pause, though, is when we have an economy like these and there simply are not jobs to be had, much less for those who haven't been used to working or have the skills.

Absolutely I've worked my whole life and am surrounded by people who always have.

In our work in "the system", I'm seeing families who are asking for help (legitimately) and finding out that there are big strings attached (at least through social services). I'm not sure what to think about that. I think if you want X, you might need to submit to Y, but I'd also be afraid of truly needful people falling through the gaps if they feel too exposed in asking for help.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2012, 01:52:49 PM »

Quote
In our work in "the system", I'm seeing families who are asking for help (legitimately) and finding out that there are big strings attached (at least through social services). I'm not sure what to think about that. I think if you want X, you might need to submit to Y, but I'd also be afraid of truly needful people falling through the gaps if they feel too exposed in asking for help.

i have mixed feelings about need too.  i think most people jump to looking for external help way to soon.  it should be hard and there should be string attached.

my oldest has two kids, married, has some debt from the last spouse, and is about a semester away from his degree (better late than never smiley)  last month, he lost his job.  lousy timing especially since they'd just come to the point where he felt pretty secure in his job and his wife had quite work to go back to school.

i told him to go down and get food stamps and whatever else he qualified, for because that's what the programs were there for.  instead, he is working two jobs, one a min. wage job at Safeway, and his wife has gone back to work at a temp agency.  they are making it, barely, but they are proof that it can be done if you are willing to work.  it would be easier if he took the help...no doubt about it.

i don't see things getting better any time soon.  we are going to have to make some tough decisions and they are going to have to include making the "safety net" harder to fall into.  this country made a choice in leadership.  the consequences of that choice are going to impact the way we live for a long time to come.  maybe that's a fair trade off for a lot of people. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2012, 03:00:38 PM »

Kudos to your son! I don't know how old his kids are, but some of those choices would be especially hard if it came between having any time with the kids and not having to ask for help. Your son is exactly the kind of person I'd love for there to be help for.

We have an older friend who despises govt help. Then he developed heart disease--very active, very thin guy, not his fault. He was quite poor but either had to accept help or die without surgery. I really felt for him and I'm not sure what eventually happened. I know a lot of people pooled together money to help out, and I know he pays off a tiny amount per month, but I'm guessing a lot will still have to be written off. Really tough decisions for a lot of people.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2012, 03:11:49 PM »

Quote
Your son is exactly the kind of person I'd love for there to be help for.

it's there.  he chooses not to take it.  yes, he is sacrificing time with his family.  that's a choice that generations of parents have had to make.  it is probably a better example to kids than mom collecting the welfare check.

Quote
I know a lot of people pooled together money to help out, and I know he pays off a tiny amount per month, but I'm guessing a lot will still have to be written off

isn't this why we already put gazillions of dollars into medicare?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 01:16:22 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2012, 12:33:33 PM »

The wife works for our county Juvenile Court, has for 18 years.  She never ceases to be amazed at the number of kids on SSI/disability for ADD and ADHD.  The actual terms my not be listed, but the lawers sure know how to get it through. 
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luvin honey
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« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2012, 12:39:33 PM »

Wow, that's amazing to me. Maybe I haven't seen the most severe cases, but if a child is in school, and the school is dealing with the ADD, I just can't see how SSI would become involved...
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
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