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Author Topic: this sums it up  (Read 7954 times)
luvin honey
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« Reply #100 on: November 28, 2012, 10:40:32 AM »

I admit to a bias towards prevention. Some would say it's purely common sense, but I'll have to admit I went to college for community health education. The whole idea is to put time/money/education/healthcare up front to hopefully prevent the extremely expensive stuff that develops without it.

It is WAY cheaper to have immunizations than whooping cough.
It is WAY cheaper to catch diabetes early and treat it (routine physical exam) than to let it develop into complications.
It is WAY cheaper to offer prenatal care to women than to let possible complications develop.

Not to mention it is more humane.

So, clearly my "free" yearly physicals are not "free," but they should save the healthcare system a lot of dough in the long run.
Of course, the whole theory depends on adults who are capable of caring for themselves. I'm sure self-responsible convervatives
are very capable of caring for their own health. So, at a yearly physical when your doc suggests quitting smoking, that "free"
consultation only works if you actually do, in fact, quit smoking. If (the collective) you don't take the health advice of your
physician, then that "free" exam won't yield future money-saving results.

I think healthcare in America is absolutely insane because most Americans insist on abusing their bodies to an absolutely insane degree.

Their diets are abysmal.
They get nearly no exercise.
They smoke, drink and do drugs (legal or otherwise).
They get very fat.

And then we want affordable healthcare. Just not possible. So I, for one, would be delighted to finally get healthcare costs that reflect
MY lifestyle and MY choices, as my healthcare costs would drop through the floor. In the meantime, I have to struggle over the decision
to bring my son in to the doctor for a 3-week cough that's not going away. It will cost me $200-300 out of pocket since I have a
catastrophic plan to be able to afford insurance at all. Or, I can wait for a "yearly physical" schedule opening (weeks? months?) so he can
get a free checkup and then I can bring up his cough.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #101 on: November 28, 2012, 11:23:07 AM »

Quote
Of course, the whole theory depends on adults who are capable of caring for themselves.

therein will lie the problem.  the very people you want to help are the least responsible.  you can ding me for hating the poor, but they are the ones who have the highest rate of smoking, highest rate of obesity, eat the crappy food, and don't take advantage of what is already available, or they abuse it.

there are basically 3 groups of people in medicine.

1.  poor (not temporarily in trouble, but generational welfare trash)
2. working poor
3. insured or can pay for care.

the poor already have programs which they either don't use, or abuse.  they still use the ER for care because it's faster.  they bring kids in for every snotty nose.  they skip appointments without notice.  they tend to be drug seekers, drug abusers, have criminal backgrounds, etc.  they are poor for a reason and laziness is one among many.
these are the parents who won't register their kids for care and don't get them immunized until the schools threaten to kick them out.  preventive care is wasted on this group.  if they can't be motivated for anything else, they won't go get a mammogram.
among this group are the uninsured kids estimated to be as many as 10 million.  they qualify for programs but have not been registered.  i think the 10 million number is a bit high....but......

2.  this is the group that really needs some help.  it is a relatively small group.  it also tends to be younger and healthier as many of these are kids working minimum wage jobs while in school, etc.  this group is estimated to be around 15 to 20 million.  they do not qualify for public programs already in place and can't afford to buy more insurance than they get though work which may be little to none.   
covering this group would have been fairly easy and relatively inexpensive. 
a number of solutions have been proposed over the years including my favorite which is the low cost, based on income, insurance pools. 

3. the last group of uninsured are uninsured by choice.  they pay out of pocket for care.  it is far cheaper to do this if you are healthy so rather than pay for insurance they feel they don't need, they use cash.  this group is estimated to be around 10  million. 

so why did we write a however many thousand page bill that messes up the entire health care system for the sake of  a few million?  why are we driving people from the insurance they have and driving cost up for the sake of a few million?

Quote
So, clearly my "free" yearly physicals are not "free," but they should save the healthcare system a lot of dough in the long run.

they won't because the people who should use the services won't, the wait time will go up, and as the system overloads, the treatment will degrade and the time to treatment will go up.

imagine being diagnosed with breast cancer and being told the you can't begin treatment for 6 months.  or..your father is told that he needs bypass surgery.  in fact, he's so sick that he needs to stay in hospital....for  months....until a surgeon is available.  this won't happen over night, but i bet it will happen faster here, than the 40 years it took to degrade UK health care.

of course, the wealthy will still get the care they can pay for and the rest of us will be left with what there is.....and the poor will still scream that it's not fair.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #102 on: November 28, 2012, 11:57:35 AM »

Perhaps such behavior as poor health habits among the less fortunate has something to do w/ a lack of hope for their futures.  Perhaps.

Despair can/does lead some folks to all kinds of counterproductive behaviors, even from those who know better.
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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
kathyp
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« Reply #103 on: November 28, 2012, 12:52:48 PM »

yeah, i'm sure that's it.  "i'm so depressed over being poor i think i'll eat myself to death".  to bad the real poor around the world don't have such a problem!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #104 on: November 28, 2012, 02:00:00 PM »

For someone so smart you must also be aware that there are lots of reasons for depression, poverty is but one.   Are you spitting again? grin

A 'society driven' poor self image is another.  Historically, blaming those less fortunate in troubled times for our troubles remains a habitual inhumane part of humanity.  

Blaming a relatively powerless minority class is always the path of least resistance for the cowards and maintains the status quo for the well off very nicely indeed.  The assumptions made based on some of the 'insightful'  Wink comments here show us there is little hope for those 'lazy do nothings' who are robbing us.  

You're all really sure its not the rich?  Like its always been..............for the last 5000 years.  What changed?  

In America (did I falsely assume that was where we were talking about  rolleyes, both conditions can/do lead to obesity, but I'm sure we already know all about that now don't we?

Cure for obesity according to T Beek;  

Do More (does not include prolonged sitting Wink @ computer), Eat Less
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 09:28:47 AM by T Beek » Logged

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
sterling
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« Reply #105 on: November 29, 2012, 11:48:18 AM »

If most people in the U.S.A were desiring to be independent then Obama would not have gotten reelected. Many people that I have talked to about who they voted for in the Nov election said they voted for Obama so they could get FREE health care. Some even have descent jobs. When one votes for a guy to get free stuff independence is not his or her goal.
Then they seem sadly uninformed. I would even consider voting Republican to get free healthcare, but it ain't happening with either party. Nobody but the very poor are going to (and already do) get free healthcare (regardless of which party is in office).

Sterling, it seems to be an unwillingness of yours to consider that people voted for Obama for reasons other than welfare. If you insist on seeing everything through that filter, it will be hard for you to understand the many OTHER reasons most people voted for Obama.

Can you tell me some of the reasons others voted for Obama?
 I know some who voted for him for reasons other then freebees. Things like their union told them to, things like he is black and so am I. And things like they believed the misinformation that was given by democratic news organizations like CBS NBC ABC and CNN. People just do not realize how they are being decieved by these news orgaizations.
I frankly can't see anything that he has done to benefit our USA. Killed B L maybe and he doesn't know anything good either or he would have run on that fact in the presidential race instead of destroying Romney.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #106 on: November 29, 2012, 05:59:23 PM »

...they believed the misinformation that was given by .... news organizations like CBS NBC ABC and CNN. People just do not realize how they are being decieved by these news orgaizations.

Sterling my friend, is your keyboard missing the FO – and X keys?
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T Beek
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« Reply #107 on: November 30, 2012, 05:03:38 AM »

BlueBee; that's the funniest thing I can remember seeing at 4AM in a long time.

Thanks for starting my day w/ a hearty laugh.

In answer to your q............to sterling.........which has little..... to do w/ bright or light, more like flight or fight  grin lau lau lau lau  its doubtful he'd ever slam FOX or say a thing against them based on his posts which have become increasingly predictable.  

His remote/selector is locked  shocked in its current position.

Oh my, my cheeks hurt. Thanks again.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 05:18:46 AM by T Beek » Logged

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
buzzbee
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« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2012, 05:27:37 PM »

You can count on CBS NBC ABC and CNN to spew the WH talking points. They  refuse to hold anyone accountable.They actually defend things like Benghazi and yesterday Geitners message of the President will raise the debt ceiling unilaterally. He has no authority to write spending. It is the sole responsibility of the House.
Will they hold his feet to the fire??? My guess is no,they will stand back and watch him override Congress.
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