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Author Topic: living with the Varroa Mite  (Read 2797 times)
GLOCK
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« on: November 28, 2012, 07:58:24 AM »

Is it posible to  get my bee's mite resistant on my 12 acers ?
I can only work on my land{12 acers} but i think i'm the only beekeeper for miles.
Is it posible to stay chemical free with my bees or is it something thats just going to wipe out my bee's ?
If i make splits and queens from my strong hives will one day the bee's learn to deal with Varroa Mite?
thank you.
Ya read so many diffrent things on Varroa Mite you just don't know witch way to go i sure would like to stay chemical free.
I wish i know some one that has done this .
I have 15 hive right now and hoping they make it throught the winter.
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Finski
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 08:11:06 AM »

Is it posible to  get my bee's mite resistant on my 12 acers ?
I can only work on my land{12 acers} but i think i'm the only beekeeper for miles.
Is it posible to stay chemical free with my bees or is it something thats just going to wipe out my bee's ?
If i make splits and queens from my strong hives will one day the bee's learn to deal with Varroa Mite?
thank you.
Ya read so many diffrent things on Varroa Mite you just don't know witch way to go i sure would like to stay chemical free.
I wish i know some one that has done this .
I have 15 hive right now and hoping they make it throught the winter.

You must be experienced beekeeper  when you have 15 hives. Such number will not come with hoping on your 12 acres.

But your questions are such that you are spamming.

.
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Parksguyy
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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 08:24:58 AM »

Hey there,
I'm no expert on bees thats for sure, I'm going into my first winter with bees.
I purchased my bees from a lady who has never treated her bees, something I am hoping to continue as well.
I'm an avid reader and absorbed so much information before I got my bees and was amazed at how others look to treatments on a regular basis.  I won't argue the fact that there may be times when you will have to treat but I think in general many beeks are over treating.  Its like the use of antibodies with us, we know thats not a good thing in the long run .. the virus simply will change so the same antibodies don't work.  So far I have been lucky, I have four hives and virtually have no mites ... our testing this fall produced 9-15 mites over a 7day peroid ... I couldn't get to my bees before that or would have.  The spring test will tell us more too, but I will be installing screened bottom boards as well next summer.  A friend of mine had unbelievable counts this fall (he has had alot of problems with his hives unfortunately) so he ended up doing the icing sugar treatmen and literally hundreds of mites dropped off his bees.  So there is some proveth that natural treatments will work and at the very least help.  Its up to the beek to watch his hives and look for the signs and deal with them ... a little preventative measures now and again will help.  You don't want to wait until the issues get out of hand.  Just my two cents worth.  Kerry     
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Finski
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« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 08:37:10 AM »

.

Canada Winter Losses for Winter 2010-2011


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




 
Here is a report from our neighbors to the north (Canada for those who are directionally challenged) about winter loss of managed honey bee colonies during the winter of 2010-2011 (last winter).  In Canada, there was a reported loss of 29.3%.  In Ontario, our nearest neighbor and climatically similar to Michigan in many respects, the reported loss was 43.0%!
 
In the US, the early reports peg the winter loss at around 30%.
 
This reported mortality loss in Canada was greater than 2009-2010, but less than the three previous winters before that.  A similar trend was seen in the US.  Ontario had the highest reported loss of the provinces in Canada.
 
In Ontario, beekeepers reported mortality to occur because of ineffective Varroa control, Nosema levels, poor queens, weak colonies and poor weather conditions.  Sound familiar?
 
The report also contains a discussion of which treatments were used in Ontario.
 
The full report can be read by clicking here.
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Finski
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« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 08:42:44 AM »

.

Look, how many reasech project are going in Canada to get mite tolerant bees. Where are results?

Canadian Bee Research Fund Projects  http://www.honeycouncil.ca/cbrf_projects.php
 
The Canadian Bee Research Fund announces three projects funded for the current year.
 
Current Research Projects

2011 Prof. Amro Zayad, "Tradeoffs between social and inate immunity and its implication for honey bee breeding and stock improvement"  - $9900
 2011 Dr. Stephen Pernal "Integrated Management of Nosema & Detection of Antibiotic Residues”. - $8000.
 Previously funded Research Projects
 
2010 Dr. Steve Pernal, Adony Melathopoulos, Jeff Pettis, T. Thompson; Integrated Management of Nosema & Detection of Antibiotic Residues - $8,636.64


2010 Dr. Dave Shutler, E.H. Frost, K. Hillier, D. MacKinnon; Effects of a Miticide on Honeybee Memory - $6,400.00

 
2010 Dr. Rob. Currie; Cultural and chemical treatments to synergize honey bee resistance mechanisms against the parasitic mite, Varroa destructor, and the diseases it vectors -$6,000
 
2009 Dr. Steve Pernal, Adony Melathopoulos, Dr. Jeff Pettis, T. Thompson; Integrated Management of Nosema & Detection of Antibiotic Residues $6,957
 
2009 Albert J. Robertson, John Gruszka, Tim Wendell, John Pederson; The Saskatraz Project: Selection of Productive Honey Bee Genotypes with Tolerance to Varroa and Tracheal Mites and Development of Molecular Markers - $5,143
2009 Dr. Rob Currie; Cultural and chemical treatments to synergize honey bee resistance mechanisms against the parasitic mite, Varroa destructor, and the diseases it vectors- $6,000.
 
2008 Dr. Rob Currie, University of Manitoba, $3,000
"Cultural and chemical treatments to synergize honey bee resistance mechanisms against the parasitic mite, Varroa destructor,and the diseases it vectors."
 
2008 Dr. Steve Pernal, Agriculture Agri-Food Canada, $8,000
“Integrated Management of Nosema & Detection of Antibiotic Residues”
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Jim 134
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 06:00:51 PM »

Is it posible to  get my bee's mite resistant on my 12 acers ?
I can only work on my land{12 acers} but i think i'm the only beekeeper for miles.
Is it posible to stay chemical free with my bees or is it something thats just going to wipe out my bee's ?
If i make splits and queens from my strong hives will one day the bee's learn to deal with Varroa Mite?
thank you.
Ya read so many diffrent things on Varroa Mite you just don't know witch way to go i sure would like to stay chemical free.
I wish i know some one that has done this .
I have 15 hive right now and hoping they make it throught the winter.

You  can be treatment free IMHO you will NOT be chemical free bees cover about 8,000 acre's or so at 2 1/2 Mi


              

                   BEE HAPPY Jm 134 Smiley
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 01:42:49 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
GLOCK
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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 08:11:40 PM »

Ya know a straight answer once and while would bee nice ya ask and ya get smart ass answer from  a 50 year plus beekeeper like ya should of never asked such dumb question i forgot theres nothing but master beekeeper on this forum forgive OLD wise one! Ya know Finski  i use to think you where  a smart beekeeper the more i read your pissy posts i realize your just a grumpy old man.
JIK 134= Hey what a great answer thanks for the help . I ment  me treating with chemicas  i quess you just had to put you 2 cents in .
 Well with that being said take care i'll never ask any thing form this forum again!  No one needs the crap!
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Finski
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 12:18:52 AM »

Ya know Finski  i use to think you where  a smart beekeeper the more i read your pissy posts i realize your just a grumpy old man.

Your 15 hives, Not mine. Life teaches that positive attitudes not help bees.
Your will succeed in that where the whole world has not succeeded.
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Grandpa Jim
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« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 12:58:25 AM »

Hey Glock,
I am here in Southeast Pa.  I have put no Chemicals in my hives for the past 7 years (not a non chemical nut, just choose not to).  I raise my own queens, make my own splits, collect some local swarms and have been inspected for the past 2 years to sell queens here in PA.  I have been keeping bees since 2000...I know just a youngster in beekeeping, but have gone from 2 hives in 2000 to 30 this year.  That is by choice (I could have many more) as I have a business that keeps me very busy and I keep bees to maintain a bit of my sanity.  I winter full hives, single deeps, nucs and an observation hive, and have had equal success (and loss) with all sizes.

I came out of last winter with 15 hives (had a 30% loss...about the average)  I sold some nucs, splits and queens and am going into this winter with 30 colonies and my bees produced a nice crop of honey this year to keep my customers supplied through next summer.  Two years ago I bought 2 packages as an experiment, other than that they are all the bees raised or collected in my area (granted some swarms could be from packages or whatever)  I feel I have been successful.  Could I operate as a commercial beekeeper with these numbers? ....most likely not, but I am a hobby beekeeper for now, so who cares.  Commercial beekeepers are treating with everything they can and having the same lost %s.  Could I take a chance not treating with hundreds of hives that I depend on for my next house payment?... Don't think I could.

I am not very impressed with the research being done as it is geared towards things I have no control over and cannot change.  A few winters back everyone (PA and Maryland, small and large keepers) were loosing hives at 50% and higher rate.  No one from any of the institutions doing research came out and even looked at one hive in my area.  From my own observations and conversations, which cost tax payers nothing, I feel it was weather related and no chemical could have changed that.   So on my level of beekeeping I feel we are on our own to observe, evaluate and change what we can.  Raising stock from your survivors (obviously, you know, you cannot raise anything from you dead stock rolleyes) rather than buying in Italian bee factory queens from the south would be the best (not produced by factories but bred to be bee factories...they make their money selling packages of bees...Italians...best bees for that).

You can be chemical free and successful....in my humble and inexperienced opinion.....Jim

PS ....I think winter has set in in Finland Wink.
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Joe D
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 01:59:19 AM »

I can't really say for sure, haven't been keeping bees long, but the fellow I got a queen from last spring has close to 80 hives and says he does't treat for mites.  He does put traps in for SHBs.  Good luck to you




Joe
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GLOCK
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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 02:00:44 AM »

Hey Glock,
I am here in Southeast Pa.  I have put no Chemicals in my hives for the past 7 years (not a non chemical nut, just choose not to).  I raise my own queens, make my own splits, collect some local swarms and have been inspected for the past 2 years to sell queens here in PA.  I have been keeping bees since 2000...I know just a youngster in beekeeping, but have gone from 2 hives in 2000 to 30 this year.  That is by choice (I could have many more) as I have a business that keeps me very busy and I keep bees to maintain a bit of my sanity.  I winter full hives, single deeps, nucs and an observation hive, and have had equal success (and loss) with all sizes.

I came out of last winter with 15 hives (had a 30% loss...about the average)  I sold some nucs, splits and queens and am going into this winter with 30 colonies and my bees produced a nice crop of honey this year to keep my customers supplied through next summer.  Two years ago I bought 2 packages as an experiment, other than that they are all the bees raised or collected in my area (granted some swarms could be from packages or whatever)  I feel I have been successful.  Could I operate as a commercial beekeeper with these numbers? ....most likely not, but I am a hobby beekeeper for now, so who cares.  Commercial beekeepers are treating with everything they can and having the same lost %s.  Could I take a chance not treating with hundreds of hives that I depend on for my next house payment?... Don't think I could.

I am not very impressed with the research being done as it is geared towards things I have no control over and cannot change.  A few winters back everyone (PA and Maryland, small and large keepers) were loosing hives at 50% and higher rate.  No one from any of the institutions doing research came out and even looked at one hive in my area.  From my own observations and conversations, which cost tax payers nothing, I feel it was weather related and no chemical could have changed that.   So on my level of beekeeping I feel we are on our own to observe, evaluate and change what we can.  Raising stock from your survivors (obviously, you know, you cannot raise anything from you dead stock rolleyes) rather than buying in Italian bee factory queens from the south would be the best (not produced by factories but bred to be bee factories...they make their money selling packages of bees...Italians...best bees for that).

You can be chemical free and successful....in my humble and inexperienced opinion.....Jim

PS ....I think winter has set in in Finland Wink.

Thank you  i like it when beekeepers are helpfull   helpfull post.
Now FINSKI  your a butthole! Your help sucks!
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Finski
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 02:04:07 AM »


PS ....I think winter has set in in Finland Wink.


Yes it is.

******

We have in Finland some guys who keep mite to letrant bees. One guy has lost hundreds of hives when he has bred his bees.

One guy has Elgon bees which he says that they do not need treatment. But when those cross with other races, the result is killers.

Elgon keeper have bought many races and he bought from France Kefuss bees which are very tolerant to varroa. Queens are extremely expensive.
But he says that they are impossible to nurse. They give so much stings.

I have read much about varroa tolerant bees but they are really rare in north latitudes.


But Flags high!

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RHBee
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« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 05:34:50 AM »

Is it possible to  get my bee's mite resistant on my 12 acers ?
I can only work on my land{12 acers} but i think i'm the only beekeeper for miles.
Is it posible to stay chemical free with my bees or is it something thats just going to wipe out my bee's ?
If i make splits and queens from my strong hives will one day the bee's learn to deal with Varroa Mite?
thank you.
Ya read so many diffrent things on Varroa Mite you just don't know witch way to go i sure would like to stay chemical free.
I wish i know some one that has done this .
I have 15 hive right now and hoping they make it throught the winter.

From what I can understand you can do just about anything you want with the bees. There are groups that swing in both directions and will argue endlessly about the pros and cons of treat and don't treat. If you are prepared to accept the consequences of what you do then make your choice. If you have no other bees in your area and you only breed from stock that survives w/o treatment then it stands to reason that your remaining bees will survive w/o treatment.
I think I'm not able to lose 60% of my bees so I treat. I treat if needed only so, I guess I'm a moderate.

Ya know a straight answer once and while would bee nice ya ask and ya get smart ass answer from  a 50 year plus beekeeper like ya should of never asked such dumb question i forgot theres nothing but master beekeeper on this forum forgive OLD wise one! Ya know Finski  i use to think you where  a smart beekeeper the more i read your pissy posts i realize your just a grumpy old man.
JIK 134= Hey what a great answer thanks for the help . I ment  me treating with chemicas  i quess you just had to put you 2 cents in .
 Well with that being said take care i'll never ask any thing form this forum again!  No one needs the crap!

You gotta take the good with the bad. These guys got a lot of information that you can learn from. This is only a forum. You take the information that people give, sort out the BS, and make your own decisions about what to do next. I work with the attitude that if you don't want to know someones opinion then don't ask the question. I think that Finski is really fighting that language barrier, I work with guys that come from Europe. I sometimes get some funny answers from them. They think in their language , have to translate to english and, this doesn't work out good all the time. He may be grumpy but, with 50years under his belt, I'll take time to listen to what he has to say. I don't think that there is anyone here that would lead you wrong on purpose. You just get answers from their perspective.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2012, 06:17:34 AM »

Grandpa Jim......

 Can you find A piece of land in the USA about 6 Mi Sq that has very been treatment by chemical Huh



                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
BMAC
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2012, 06:19:34 AM »

I bet you can find a 5 mi piece of land that has never been treated with chemicals in the USA.
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Finski
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 07:04:20 AM »

Grandpa Jim......

 Can you find A piece of land in the USA about 6 Mi Sq that has very been treatment by chemical Huh



We had in "ecological honey" demands that pastures are not allowed to handled with artificial fertilizers. That must be removed because we have not such land in Finland, at least such which have proper vegetation to bees.

Like I  have said allways in this point: Look at your wife's chemical armament
 in bath room. ..And your carage, chemicals for car "treatment".

.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2012, 08:28:08 AM »

I bet you can find a 5 mi piece of land that has never been treated with chemicals in the USA.

 Can bees live on it  all year long Huh


    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
        Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
 John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
GLOCK
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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2012, 08:35:36 AM »

Is it possible to  get my bee's mite resistant on my 12 acers ?
I can only work on my land{12 acers} but i think i'm the only beekeeper for miles.
Is it posible to stay chemical free with my bees or is it something thats just going to wipe out my bee's ?
If i make splits and queens from my strong hives will one day the bee's learn to deal with Varroa Mite?
thank you.
Ya read so many diffrent things on Varroa Mite you just don't know witch way to go i sure would like to stay chemical free.
I wish i know some one that has done this .
I have 15 hive right now and hoping they make it throught the winter.

From what I can understand you can do just about anything you want with the bees. There are groups that swing in both directions and will argue endlessly about the pros and cons of treat and don't treat. If you are prepared to accept the consequences of what you do then make your choice. If you have no other bees in your area and you only breed from stock that survives w/o treatment then it stands to reason that your remaining bees will survive w/o treatment.
I think I'm not able to lose 60% of my bees so I treat. I treat if needed only so, I guess I'm a moderate.

Ya know a straight answer once and while would bee nice ya ask and ya get smart ass answer from  a 50 year plus beekeeper like ya should of never asked such dumb question i forgot theres nothing but master beekeeper on this forum forgive OLD wise one! Ya know Finski  i use to think you where  a smart beekeeper the more i read your pissy posts i realize your just a grumpy old man.
JIK 134= Hey what a great answer thanks for the help . I ment  me treating with chemicas  i quess you just had to put you 2 cents in .
 Well with that being said take care i'll never ask any thing form this forum again!  No one needs the crap!

You gotta take the good with the bad. These guys got a lot of information that you can learn from. This is only a forum. You take the information that people give, sort out the BS, and make your own decisions about what to do next. I work with the attitude that if you don't want to know someones opinion then don't ask the question. I think that Finski is really fighting that language barrier, I work with guys that come from Europe. I sometimes get some funny answers from them. They think in their language , have to translate to english and, this doesn't work out good all the time. He may be grumpy but, with 50years under his belt, I'll take time to listen to what he has to say. I don't think that there is anyone here that would lead you wrong on purpose. You just get answers from their perspective.
Ya i know there people that go to these forums that are very helpful and i do listen i even think  Finski is  a smart beekeeper but he acts like everyone should know what there doing or not have bee's .
I've only been at it for 4 years and i am chemical free   and i read alot about  the VARROA  and i know i will lose hives i lost 2 to mites this year .
I just would like people to give advice to help with this venture was not looking for well your domed no one thats hobbyest can have bees that can live with the mites .
I'm in it for the bee's not money not honey the bee's  and  answers that are helpful are appreciated but sarcasm is just rude with 50 plus years  you would think he would know how to talk to people.
GUPPY OLD MAN!
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Finski
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« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2012, 09:02:59 AM »


I've only been at it for 4 years and i am chemical free   and i read alot about  the VARROA  and i know i will lose hives i lost 2 to mites this year .

old man and old man. After 50 years you are older than me now.

You lost allready 2 hives. After winter, how many hives you bet top loose during next half year? Canadian climate does not give mercy.
Russian bees have been in Canada since year 2000.

I have news that some one breed and sell anti mite bees, in which he has used genes from New Zealand. And those bees are Carniolans orininally  from Germany

.

When you are on your way to non chemical beekeeping, you should first get bee strain, which identify mites as enemy.
Up to that, keep you hives alive with chemicals like oxalic acid and thymol.

********************

12 acres is about 5 hectares. It is like nothing to bees.

Bees forage on average 2 km distances and that area is 12 square kilometres.  One hectare is 2,5 acres. One square kilometre has 100 hectares and  250 acres.

So bees forage on average on area  which is 2500 acres.

If the radius is 2 miles/ 3 km , the area is about 3 fold. It is 28 square kilometres which is 2800 hectares or 7000 acres.

.
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RHBee
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« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2012, 09:14:02 AM »

I can understand what you're saying. I kinda feel dumb with the questions I ask. I have gotten the "duh" response in the past. I gotta figure out how to search this forum better. I only have a part of a year under my belt. I understand why people get fed up with answering the same questions over and over.
But getting back to the topic, I don't want to lose half of my hives to mites. I'm going to convert to Russian stock in the spring and give them a try. From what I have read and experienced with the 1 russian colony I have they look like varroa and the tracheal mite don't bother them as much. I only have 6 colonies and take it personal when something goes wrong.
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