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Author Topic: 12 frame deeps  (Read 4274 times)

Offline Finski

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2012, 02:23:43 AM »
 

All that foam is going to be used to build bee hives for next spring.

It is 120% sure that it is waste of material and time. Construction insulation board is not right material.
You must something better to do.

After 2 years all your boxes will be  rubbish.  Many will  brake before you get bees inside. The rest will handle bees jaws and ants.
Ants destroy those boards in one week. Best in 2 days.

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Offline BlueBee

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2012, 03:10:23 AM »
I’ve been making my hives out of this stuff for years now; where have you been? :?  Neither the bees nor the Ants have destroyed the hives.  Not a single hive has broken.  Using these sheets of poly is cheaper than wood, cheaper than commercial poly hives, and MUCH more insulated than commercial hives.  I’ve been making hives like Derekm since before he even got started with bees.

These 3 jumbo hives are made out of the same sheets of polystyrene; they’ve been painted to protect against UV.



All of these are also made of polystyrene sheets.  I’m about 99.995% sure it was not a waste of time. ;)



Offline Finski

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2012, 04:47:10 AM »
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Okay. YOu do it.

I have done too own hives. Commercial poly hives are all not good because bees eate them broken.,

Wel. Carry on!

I byed used polyhives  8 US dollars per langstroth box.
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Offline edward

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2012, 05:25:33 AM »
It depends on the density of the poly, the pink and blue kind that can bee used under ground usually ok, the white kind doesn't work beecause its to soft and the bee will turn it into snow/sand  ;)

mvh edward  :-P

Offline BlueBee

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2012, 12:14:37 PM »
Edward, you are right.  The blue and the pink stuff is extruded polystyrene.  They have smaller cells and are denser materials than the expanded white polystyrene.  The extruded foam has more compressive strength than the expanded foam and is used below grade here to insulate basements and cement slabs.  I build with 38mm thick foam and it is a very good insulator.

Can the ants chew the foam on occasion?  Yes, they can if you don’t have experience with it.  Can the bees chew the foam on occasion?  Yes, they can if you don’t have experience with it.  However the biggest problem with pure foam is neither bees nor ants.



Offline BlueBee

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2012, 12:16:59 PM »
Well. Carry on!

I byed used polyhives  8 US dollars per langstroth box.

Finski, you gotta have some faith in us American bee keepers  ;)

You have a good price for your polyhives over there.

Offline Finski

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2012, 02:05:44 PM »

Finski, you gotta have some faith in us American bee keepers  ;)



I only told my experiences.
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Offline rail

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2012, 03:13:32 PM »
BlueBee,


Think about making a division board and division frame excluder for queen production!
Sirach

Offline BlueBee

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2012, 06:11:26 PM »
Rail, what size of supers are you planning to use with your 12 frame brood boxes?  

Brother Adam used 12 frame shallow supers if I recall.  I'm thinking of just going with 9 or 10 frame supers.  What do you think?

Offline rail

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2012, 07:29:16 PM »
BlueBee,

Brother Adam used 10 shallow frames per super (Page 18 of his book).

I plan to use shallows 5 11/16" and westerns 7 5/8", 10 per super also. I like those fat honey combs! :)

Sirach

Offline BlueBee

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2012, 08:57:40 PM »
“A brood chamber of this size is square and measures 19 7/8" x 19 7/8" x 11 7/8" in depth.  The supers are of identical size but only 6” deep and hold 10 wide shallow frames.”  Page 18 Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey.

OK you were right, Brother Adam was technically using 10 frames….but in a 12 frame box!  That’s a big difference.  The 12 frame shallow box is where I see some problems.

Those are going to be fat combs (which is good), but most of the shallow box will in reality contain honey which will make it FEEL like a 12 frame box when you go to lift it.  With the center of gravity further from your body, it makes for a longer lever arm and there will be a higher torque on your back.  My back is fine today; I don’t want to screw it up for tomorrow!

My plan at the moment is to go with a shallow box that is 16 1/2” wide (or less) and fill it with 9 frames.  This will keep the weight down but there may be some negative consequences too.  I’m not sure. 

Offline rail

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2012, 09:14:47 PM »
What kind of negative consequences are thinking of?

Do you have Eugene Killion's "Honey in the Comb"?  Look at his set up, 10 frame brood chamber and with 8 frame supers.
Sirach

Offline Finski

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2012, 03:19:44 AM »
What kind of negative consequences are thinking of?

Do you have Eugene Killion's "Honey in the Comb"?  Look at his set up, 10 frame brood chamber and with 8 frame supers.


When you have 10 frames in brood and same dimensions in the suuper, 9 frames in super is proper. In 8 frames super  (-2) cells are too long and it makes much damage to combs when extracted. Not good idea.

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Offline rail

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2012, 10:18:56 AM »
BlueBee,

Video of poly-hives in use! The last time I researched, these hives are still in production and for sale.

Beekeeping by Rotation System
Sirach

Offline edward

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2012, 01:31:10 PM »
Video of poly-hives in use! The last time I researched, these hives are still in production and for sale.

Good video with a lot of interesting beekeeping  :-D worth watching

For a few months ago I sold some hives in that size, the oldest box was made in 1971, the model is called segeberger.
They are of good quality, but cost more,personally I don't like that they have a bevelled edge that crush bees and they have the bee space under the frame. Also the smaller fame size doesn't fit the rest of my bee hives/yards.
But if you move your hives allot they are stable and will not leak bees under transport.

mvh edward  :-P

Offline BlueBee

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2012, 01:37:43 AM »
Yeah, I really liked that video too.  What a nice bee hive design and an amazing woman to boot.  She throws around those deeps like they’re feather weights and works the bees without a veil wearing sandals!  Really kind of makes me feel like a weenie and a wimp. :oops:  Can you believe anybody would work bees in Sandals of all things?  Anytime I ever get a bee trapped, it stings. 

This is the video I 'borrowed' the plastic sheet/foil inner cover idea from.  I like the way the poly boxes fit together to keep the rain out and for transporting.  I’ve had some real messes transporting my homemade poly hives.  Real messes. 

Edward, I hear you about crushing bees between those boxes.  If you want to really build a bee crusher, make a hive with walls that are 50mm thick.  Crush, crush, crush. :(  It’s like a bee crushing machine  :evil:



Offline edward

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2012, 06:28:22 AM »
If you want to really build a bee crusher, make a hive with walls that are 50mm thick.  Crush, crush, crush. :(  It’s like a bee crushing machine  :evil:

If you have  wide hive walls that are flat it not a problem, you put one corner on the hive and slide the next box on, the bees will bee pushed out of the way, and slowly closing the last gap in a small triangle and you wont crush that many bees  ;)

mvh edward  :-P

Offline derekm

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Re: 12 frame deeps
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2012, 07:32:36 AM »
Langstroth's idea is to add more space vertically, not horizontaly. Put another box over you brood box.

langstroth was into insulation...  I 'm with langstroth on this,  nest height above entrance (or highest vent) +insulation =warmth (reduction in heat loss).
If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?

 

anything