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Author Topic: 12 frame deeps  (Read 3851 times)
BlueBee
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« on: November 24, 2012, 10:19:08 AM »

Iím thinking about making up a couple 12 frame deep brood boxes to experiment with this spring.  Brother Adam believed a Langstroth box was too small for a good queen and that breaking the brood nest up into 2 boxes was a bad idea.  So he went with a single 12 frame brood box using Dadant sized jumbo frames and supered those with shallow supers.

So what do you think of a 12 frame deep box?  Good idea?  Bad idea? 

No Iím not trying to reinventing the wheel, just following Brother Adam. Smiley
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Finski
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2012, 11:35:05 AM »



So what do you think of a 12 frame deep box?  Good idea?  Bad idea? 

No Iím not trying to reinventing the wheel, just following Brother Adam. Smiley


Oh my g,,,. Derekmism had hit to you.

Langstroth's idea is to add more space vertically, not horizontaly. Put another box over you brood box.

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BlueBee
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2012, 11:44:22 AM »

I think our friends in the UK have some good ideas too.   Smiley

What I like about Brother Adams design is I don't have to lift that 2nd deep Lang box to inspect the bottom one.  It's also nicer to only have to inspect 12 frames as opposed to 20.  Plus, I do my wintering in single boxes so a single insulated 12 frame deep box would be all I would need.

12 frame brood boxes worked better than Langs for Brother Adam didn't they?
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rail
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2012, 11:49:06 AM »

Finishing a couple for next spring, I like Brother Adam's philosophy and practice.

Lets compare results next year?

This is a 12 frame (13 frames will squeeze in there) 9 5/8" chamber, starting a 11 3/4" chamber for the Dadant deeps.



Inner Cover.




« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 11:59:51 AM by rail » Logged

Sirach
rail
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 12:02:31 PM »

This is an 8 frame Jumbo Nucleus! I enjoy these deep combs!



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Sirach
BlueBee
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 12:03:44 PM »

Looks nice Rail, so are you going to use deep frames or Dadant jumbo frames? 

As you probably know, I currently have some extra deep jumbo hive prototypes Iíve been running for a couple years now.  They do fantastic, but it is a pain to make the jumbo frames (14.5Ē deep).  However they work so well, I am going to build another 7 or so this winter.   However I also want to experiment with something that can use standard frames; like a 12 frame deep box.  If they work as well as my jumbos, they would be easier to make in the long run.

I havenít seen an advantage of small cell vs big cell yet, but one thing that is nice about the small cell PF series frames (4.9mm cells) is you get a LOT of cells per frame.  Not only are the cells smaller, but there is less wasted space in top bars, side bars and bottom bars.  Hence I think with the PF frames I can begin to approach the brood cell counts I get with my jumbo sized frame. 

What are you going to use for supers?
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BlueBee
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 12:07:00 PM »

That nuc looks pretty healthy!  Iím very happy with how many bees my jumbo combs generate.  Watch out when they swarm though!  Itís a massive cloud of bees.
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rail
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 12:10:20 PM »

I am going to try both, but prefer the "Jumbos"!

It is all about a single chamber brood nest and IPM for me. Even Walter T. Kelley wrote about the 10 frame Langs not being sufficient for queens.
 
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Sirach
Finski
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2012, 12:59:55 PM »

 cheesy.
Very fine wood work!

.
But go after some Brother Adam's foot prints.... makes no sense.


Is the right tittle Brother Adam III Junior
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 01:17:45 PM by Finski » Logged

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Finski
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2012, 01:08:11 PM »

.
Karl Kehrle (aka "Brother Adam") (3 August 1898 in Mittelbiberach, Germany Ė 1 September 1996 in Buckfast, Devon, England) was a Benedictine monk, beekeeper, and an authority on bee breeding, developer of the Buckfast bee. "He was unsurpassed as a breeder of bees. He talked to them, he stroked them. He brought to the hives a calmness that, according to those who saw him at work, the sensitive bees responded to." (The Economist, Sept. 14th 1996)[1]

When I started beekeeping at the age of 15, Brother Adam was at my age 64 y.

Lets resad more: Due to health problems he was sent by his mother at age 11 to Buckfast Abbey, where he joined the order (becoming Brother Adam) and in 1915 started his beekeeping activity

He started beekeeping 100 years ago..

When I started 5o y ago, everything has changed after that: bees, hives, insulations, feeding boxes, nursing, yields, pastures, stings.

The smoker is the same and Lanstroth frames and mediums.
And the car eates more gasoline than it earns.






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BlueBee
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2012, 01:17:56 PM »

Is the right tittle Brother Adam Junior

I'm thinking more like SAINT Brother Adam  Smiley
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Finski
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2012, 01:44:51 PM »

Is the right tittle Brother Adam Junior

I'm thinking more like SAINT Brother Adam  Smiley

he is saint because he is dead, or what sounds " Saint Blue Bee"- Sounds a power word to me  like " saint fart, what a day !"
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Jim 134
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2012, 08:58:41 PM »

BlueBee.........

Have you look at Dadant hives AKA Jumbo hives

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,34989.0.html


In 2010 you still could get the Dadant frames & foundation but you need to call them
 
http://www.dadant.com/



              BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 09:09:48 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

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Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
BlueBee
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2012, 11:07:01 PM »

he is saint because he is dead

In order for somebody to become a Saint there must be proof of a posthumous miracle.  Such as saving a life from certain death.  Who knows, maybe Brother Adam will appear in the Aurora Borealis some night and lead a lost Scandinavian bee keeper out of the woods and into safety?  Better be nice to those bee keepers in the UK Smiley
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BlueBee
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2012, 11:25:26 PM »

Thanks for that link back Jim134, I do vaguely remember that thread.

I like the idea of using the official Dadant jumbo frames, but Iím a plastic kind of guy.  If I could get the Dadant frames in plastic, it would be a no brainer to go that route.  Iím not aware of anybody selling the Dadant Jumbos in plastic and the PF frames are just too cheap (in a good way) and convenient to pass up.  So my plan right now is to go with PF deep frames in a 12 frame deep hive with frames spaced at the normal 35mm as opposed to Dadants 38mm.
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rail
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2012, 09:20:38 AM »

BlueBee,

I am preparing both the 9 5/8" and 11 3/4" depth in the 12 or 13 frame chamber. Supers will be 5 11/16" shallow and 7 5/8" western with 10 frames per super; (experimentation)!!!

My goal is a single chamber through the winter, just trying to find what works for me and my location!

I like your plan and hope to see your results.

These are modified frames for 11 1/4" depth with Rite-Cell foundation.




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Sirach
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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2012, 11:53:45 AM »

Nice pics Rail.  Yuall keep us informed on how it comes out, looks interesting.





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BlueBee
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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2012, 05:51:53 PM »

1:  Have a plan
Check

2:  Have bees
Check

3:  Get Polystyrene
Check  grin

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Finski
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2012, 06:02:43 PM »

.
Where you put that polystyrene?

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BlueBee
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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2012, 06:13:35 PM »

Finski, I listened to you about insulation.  That is a good thing, right? 

All that foam is going to be used to build bee hives for next spring.  Some will be used for making 12 frame deeps (this thread), some will be used for making more of my Jumbo sized hives (1.5 deep Langs), and the rest will be used for nucs.  I make the walls, tops and bottoms of my boxes out of this stuff. 
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