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Author Topic: Happy Thanksgiving...Ronald Reagan 1985  (Read 1267 times)
kathyp
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« on: November 22, 2012, 09:48:18 AM »

“Good morning, everyone. You know, the Statue of Liberty and this wonderful holiday called Thanksgiving go together naturally because although as Americans we have many things for which to be thankful, none is more important than our liberty. Liberty: that quality of government, that brightness of mind and spirit for which the Pilgrim Fathers braved the seas and Americans for two centuries have laid down their lives.
 
“Today, while religion is suppressed in perhaps one third of the world, we Americans are free to worship the Almighty as we choose. While entire nations must endure the yoke of tyranny, we are free to speak our minds, to enjoy an unfettered and vigorous press, and to make government abide by the limits we deem just. While millions live behind walls, we remain free to travel throughout the land to share this precious day with those we love most deeply – the members of our families.
 
“My fellow Americans, let us keep this Thanksgiving Day sacred. Let us thank God for the bounty and goodness of our nation. And as a measure of our gratitude, let us rededicate ourselves to the preservation of this: the land of the free and the home of the brave.
 
“From the Reagan family to your family: happy Thanksgiving and God bless you all.”


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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllenF
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2012, 09:56:48 AM »

 applause

Ronald Reagan talks to America on Thanksgiving Day 1985


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sterling
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 07:11:56 PM »

 :'(How things have changed since he said those words. Cry
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carlfaba10t
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 08:46:41 PM »

Now days, ITS"you did not make that bird" !! huh
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Carl-I have done so much with so little for so long i can now do something with nothing!
luvin honey
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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2012, 01:12:06 PM »

Now days, ITS"you did not make that bird" !! huh
The whole point of the Obama quote actually was gratitude, although people keep twisting it. The whole point was thankfulness for those who paved the road before us.

As a woman now farming, for example, I fully realize that although I need the brains and energy to persist in awful conditions, a whole phalanx of people went before me and paved the way. What is possible for me today was not possible in yesteryears, and I thank a whole host of people for that.

It is a nice Thanksgiving wish from Reagan, though Smiley
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The pedigree of honey
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Vance G
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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 02:27:44 PM »

Tell the ladies of my childhood acquaintance who homesteaded in North Dakota and slept with the seed potatoes all winter about impossibility.  They did it before roads or railroads.  If you think the government made your life possible I truely feel sorry for you.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 02:38:06 PM »

I didn't say the gov't did, did I now?

I'm simply saying that all of us are here through the sweat and hard work of others, be they individuals, our family, our gender, our race, or even our govt. Obama's comment was not taking away from each person's own hard labor, it was simply acknowledging the hard labor of all those who had gone before.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 06:54:03 PM »

Quote
The whole point of the Obama quote actually was gratitude,

no it's not.  it's about killing the idea of individual exceptionalism.  he's about the collective, not the single effort.  the single effort gives single reward.  that's not acceptable. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2012, 11:52:03 AM »

I don't understand this philosophy of individual pride. I have worked hard my entire life--at home, at school, at college, on our farm, in my jobs that started at age 14. And yet, I don't take credit for all my success in life. It feels arrogant to me, and completely unwilling to acknowledge the sacrifices of everyone before me that made my life possible today.

Why is it that many conservatives don't believe pride/independence and gratitude can exist together? Do you really need to take credit for ALL of your successes? If you are parents, will you be fine if you children take credit for ALL of their successes and can't even acknowledge the sacrifices you have made to make their lives what they are?
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2012, 01:36:13 PM »

Quote
I don't understand this philosophy of individual pride. I have worked hard my entire life--at home, at school, at college, on our farm, in my jobs that started at age 14. And yet, I don't take credit for all my success in life. It feels arrogant to me, and completely unwilling to acknowledge the sacrifices of everyone before me that made my life possible today.

Why is it that many conservatives don't believe pride/independence and gratitude can exist together? Do you really need to take credit for ALL of your successes? If you are parents, will you be fine if you children take credit for ALL of their successes and can't even acknowledge the sacrifices you have made to make their lives what they are?

i think you are missing the point.  it's not that we are not grateful for what others have done.  it is that we are responsible for what we do and expect both the reward and consequences for our actions.

if my sons are grateful, but they do nothing with their lives, i will not be happy.  if they are successful, i don't expect to share in that just because i sent them to  school and fed them.  that's my job as a parent.  their job is to go out and do well. 

there is something else about conservatives, and that is that they give.  they are more apt to contribute to charity in both time and with more money as a % of income.  one of the reasons i do what i do is that i don't think government should be doing it.  the work does need to be done.  if i don't think that government should do it, then i'd better get my butt out there and work.  i have taught me sons the same.  i don't owe anyone anything, but i choose to give of my own free will. 

i think we instinctively know that government is not a good solution to much of anything.  we allow ourselves to be talked into the government programs because it's easy.  even those very rich philanthropists on the left don't believe that government is the answer or they wouldn't set up private foundations to do the things that government claims it does, but at which it fails
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2012, 10:02:35 PM »

i think you are missing the point.  it's not that we are not grateful for what others have done.  it is that we are responsible for what we do and expect both the reward and consequences for our actions.

if my sons are grateful, but they do nothing with their lives, i will not be happy.  if they are successful, i don't expect to share in that just because i sent them to  school and fed them.  that's my job as a parent.  their job is to go out and do well. 

there is something else about conservatives, and that is that they give.  they are more apt to contribute to charity in both time and with more money as a % of income.  one of the reasons i do what i do is that i don't think government should be doing it.  the work does need to be done.  if i don't think that government should do it, then i'd better get my butt out there and work.  i have taught me sons the same.  i don't owe anyone anything, but i choose to give of my own free will. 

i think we instinctively know that government is not a good solution to much of anything.  we allow ourselves to be talked into the government programs because it's easy.  even those very rich philanthropists on the left don't believe that government is the answer or they wouldn't set up private foundations to do the things that government claims it does, but at which it fails
I agree with everything you say!  Smiley
I believe in having govt support because there are too many gaps that private entities don't seem to fill. I think these things SHOULD be done on a local level, but that doesn't always happen.
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The pedigree of honey
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A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
T Beek
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2012, 08:59:40 AM »

IMHO; The majority of charity contributed by wealthy Conservatives or Liberals is done for the tax write off.  Other than rigging the tax code in their favor (they have, they have) How else do you think they keep their rates lower than the middle class? 

"IF" its true what kathyp implies; that conservatives 'give' more, perhaps its because they HAVE more, although I doubt the assertion. 

Conservatives simply put; are known to keep better track of their money, am I right? 

Want to bet?  grin 

If the wealthy were truly serious about 'charity' we'd have no hungry or homeless and no need for Welfare programs.  And the wealthy wouldn't need security for all their stuff.

If they were truly serious the so-called Job Creators among them (they are less than we are led to beleive) would pay their employees enough to keep them from the Welfare Lines.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2012, 09:06:22 AM »

Listening to a book called Half the Sky right now about women across the globe. Actually Tbeek, in the book the authors state that conversvatives give more money, while liberals want more govt support and give more of their time.

I'm happy to believe that all political participants are trying to address the problems they see.

However, one problem is that a lot of the conservative contributions were going to things like large churches instead of social problems, but there was still a lot of contribution going on.
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The pedigree of honey
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---Emily Dickinson
T Beek
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« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2012, 09:09:57 AM »

"Time is money"  grin
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kathyp
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« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2012, 09:53:06 AM »

Quote
However, one problem is that a lot of the conservative contributions were going to things like large churches instead of social problems

and guess who are the first to step up in any disaster?  by the time i get there, the churches have fed people, collected clothes, even housed people.  the Methodists, Southern Baptists, Adventists, and even the Muslims, have disaster relief organizations.
most of the time the meals the the red cross is serving, are cooked by the southern baptists.

we just had a mud slide in our area.  the shelter we opened was in the gym of the church in that town. 

in my area, there is one church that runs a food bank.  there is another that runs a second hand store.  everything is sold at the cost it take to run the store and the people who run it, volunteer.  i really like this idea because i think it's better for people to pay a little than to get stuff for free.  i donate to them all the time.  they also get the day old bread from the local stores and give it away.

shall i go on?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2012, 10:55:31 AM »

The churches WERE among the conservative givers. However, for individuals, often their donations were to build big churches, as in $ went to the building itself. I realize those churches then may become givers themselves, but I wonder how huge and fancy they really need to be.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
Keith13
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« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2012, 11:16:25 AM »

The churches WERE among the conservative givers. However, for individuals, often their donations were to build big churches, as in $ went to the building itself. I realize those churches then may become givers themselves, but I wonder how huge and fancy they really need to be.

I sort of agree with you here on the size of the church, but some need the space because the congregation has grown so large.
Do some go to far? of course

Churches in my community including my own are on the front line in the fight against hunger homelessness and other local problems including disaster relief.

I saw where someone made the comment its because of the deduction that we give, so whats your point? The fact the government gives me a deduction is great but even without the deduction my owners manual of life (the Bible) instructs me to tithe so it would get done regardless

Keith

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luvin honey
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2012, 11:23:48 AM »

I personally have no problem with people giving for a deduction. After all, they could pepper it away in a retirement acct and get the same deduction. I say giving for any reason, any place, any time is welcome.

In our community, retired local doctors and dentists have formed a free clinic for those who can't afford healthcare. I'm not sure where ALL their funding comes from, but there are many "cups" around the community in which to contribute.

As for tithing, Keith, I just heard a fascinating sermon on this one. It was to be goods only, never money, and it went to the priests and Levites. If it was impractical to haul the donkeys, corn, etc. 100s of miles to the priests, then the goods were to be sold at a local market, the $ taken to the priest's town, and the goods re-purchased there at a local market. I thought it was fascinating. Of course Jesus taught about giving to the poor and needy also, but it was to be secret and quiet. Not preaching here, just thinking out loud about a few interesting thoughts about giving/tithing.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
T Beek
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« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2012, 11:31:49 AM »

Another can of worms here (sorry), but I 'believe' churches should have no tax exemptions, too many of them are simply 'money making machines' run by con artists and giving the good ones a bad name.  

Hey, that sounds like our Congress grin

As for 'giving for deductions' I've personally NEVER taken the deduction, I'm not wealthy enough for it to make much of a difference.  Unless you give alot it doesn't help much at all, besides I've NEVER been one who keeps track of what I contribute (give back, pay forward) to society. 

I 'BELIEVE' its my RESPONSIBILITY AND JUST PART OF BEING A GOOD CITIZEN.  ooops, sorry for the caps  embarassed
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