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Author Topic: Derekm's Hive  (Read 14097 times)
Finski
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« Reply #160 on: December 09, 2012, 11:46:48 AM »

**lol, you never speak about Alaska and about Alaska adapted queens?**

 gee if you where from alaska then thats all we would talk about -but your from finland so we
 will truch through-- Wink

 

**In Canada  80% of beekeepers are professionals. They do not need forum advices and not at least from California.**

 well it apears that guys from finland do--I went back and read your posts from 2004-read about poly hives
 and you said you used a top entrance or top vent for exaust of resperation moisture because of soilid botom board
you said not needed if you have screen botom board- chop chop thats what you wrote --but luckly time has pased
and you have learned from the forum how to run a poly hive now you are expert thanks to posters like EDWARD
you have gained the knoledge that poly hive lets watter drain out front from condenseing on the sides -with a insulated top cover
yes you no longer run your poly hives like a wood hive -there is a differance -I am glad that you are improving
your beekeeping skills- Wink try and get somthing acomplish today instead of internet sword fight with the AMERICAN BEEKEEPERS-- ninja dont take it personal have a nice day  Smiley  RDY-B


hehhehehehehehehe. Beemaster saved me. Edwards saved me.

Edward Date Registered: March 06, 2010,



I have had polyboxes 25 years.
I have the same inner cover sructure as 25 years ago
My bottom boadrs are the same as 25 years ago.
I have upper entrances the same as 40 years ago,

A guy from California told it told to  me

Edward have written funny things but I do not remember what makes he guru.
He is the man who tell how to keep bees in Scandinavia.


heheheheh

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rdy-b
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« Reply #161 on: December 09, 2012, 12:04:42 PM »

speaking of Alaskan Beekeeping can anyone tell me how they move hives from flow to flow such as wildflower to fireweed if the sun is always shining and there is no dark --how do you move bees in this circumstance--RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #162 on: December 09, 2012, 12:09:17 PM »

.
What Edward said

two years agho Edward wrote :

Interesting !

How big or small is your summer/winter ventilation ?  Width , height ,, diameter ?

I would assume that if you had a small ventilation hole/gap in the roof area , and if the bees din not think it was a good idea they would fill it with propolis.

Most of the bee keepers I know have no ventilation up top and a lot of ventilation in the bottom in wintertime.

Under their active season the bees should bee able to ventilate the hive to the climate they seem fit.

When they have gone into winter hibernation  and are in a cluster it is not possible for them to adjust there in hive climate as effectively.

mvh edward  


++++++++++

I live in Sweden most beekeepers here use polystyrene hives , I have a college that has a poly hive that is 30 years old , probably needs a new coat of paint  
The poly hive is light weight , easy to move , = spares your back = can keep beekeeping when your old and frail , or if you're Young and not so strong.

Warm in the winter , spring ,for brood. It also insulates against heat in the summer sun

Ventilation is a little backwards.

Spring and summer fall reduce the bottom ventilation , = earlier start for brood , easier for young bees to sweat wax , draw comb.

In the winter open the ventilation over the bottom of the hive ventilates condensation lets air in despite  of dead bees.

edward  


That habit is so called "modern". A mesh floor open in winter and no upper entrance.

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rdy-b
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« Reply #163 on: December 09, 2012, 12:16:24 PM »

 yea yea ---but how do they move bees if the sun always shines??? RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #164 on: December 09, 2012, 12:24:27 PM »

speaking of Alaskan Beekeeping can anyone tell me how they move hives from flow to flow such as wildflower to fireweed if the sun is always shining and there is no dark --how do you move bees in this circumstance--RDY-B


I move my hives only in the morning. I split my 100 kg heavy hives so that I can lift then on carry. Then I close them with transport mesh.

If bees are allready flying, as some hundreds do,  they may go to next door hive or I leave a nuc opn site which gathers bees. Then I join those bees to another hive.



Second thing is that sun is not shining all the time in Alaska. Anchorage has dark night in summer.  You must go 1000 km to north that sun shines even 24:00. But it does not heat.


In south Finland bees stop flying 2 hours before sunset when temp goes down to 18C.
If nectar is few, they have gathered flowers empty and they stop flyings 4 hours before sunset.

Two years ago I saw one hive flying one hour after sunset. Temp was then 25C but next door hives was asilent.


.
two box hive you close normally with mesh, and if you have a mesh floor, you close the entrance for example with foam plastic.

Then you start to drive in the morning.

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Finski
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« Reply #165 on: December 09, 2012, 12:32:37 PM »

.
You can see midd night sun over horizont at altitude 65 degree, but actually it is under horizont. The atmosphere twist ligh the size of the sun.

Basic temp in north is low and it goes lower in the evening. Bees cannot forage in that temperature.


Midnight sun. Taken from Eagle Summit north of Fairbanks, Alaska on June 20th through 21st, 1998





Fairbanks Alaska 65 degree latitude, elevation 136 m

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rdy-b
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« Reply #166 on: December 09, 2012, 12:33:41 PM »

**Second thing is that sun is not shining all the time in Alaska. Anchorage has dark night in summer.  You must go 1000 km to north that sun shines even 24:00. But it does not heat.**

 my question came up from another beekeeper that went to Alaska and tried to produce
 honey-i dont know exact location of the event-they said it was a big problem moving without losing field force to get more than one flow during the trip-they must have bee closer to polar circle-I know the long days provide
 great return for the season-but moving the yards in these conditions is curious--RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #167 on: December 09, 2012, 12:43:08 PM »

.
Our biggest beekeeper (3000 hives) moved 1000 hives to area of Arctic Zone. He tried to get pure fireweed honey because it does not crystallize.
First summer was perhaps something but next summer was a catastrophe. Bees coud not fly during that cold summer. After that he has been silent.
Yields are there  10-20 kg. Not worth to move hives 800 km.


That guy make polyhives and sell them at least to 10 country in Europe. He lives near me and I ask from him if I need some advices.
From Sweden I have nothing to learn. My brother have nursed bees  in north Sweden 20 years. He took 1972 from me 2 langstroth hives with Italian bees.
They have never seen in that district such hives.  My brother must bye foundations from DFinland because he did not get them from Sweden.


In those days  Sweden had this kind of hives .
Same with Finland
Practically it has one brood and one or two supers.

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edward
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« Reply #168 on: December 09, 2012, 01:02:59 PM »

What Edward saidtwo years agho Edward wrote :Ventilation is a little backwards.
Spring and summer fall reduce the bottom ventilation , = earlier start for brood , easier for young bees to sweat wax , draw comb.
In the winter open the ventilation over the bottom of the hive ventilates condensation lets air in despite  of dead bees.

Even I have modified my beekeeping beehavior The most important thing is to reduce the ventilation in the spring build up so the hive is easier to keep warm when the bee mass drops as the winter bees die of and beefore the new bees hatch. If you miss this the hive will lag its way through the season.

Cold climate beekeeping is a sprint race, not a long marathon.

Big hives can need more ventilation in the warm summer and early in the fall to dry honey in time for harvesting.
The winter is still the same, lots of ventilation to get rid of excess damp.

mvh edward  tongue
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Finski
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« Reply #169 on: December 09, 2012, 01:17:23 PM »


The winter is still the same, lots of ventilation to get rid of excess damp.




There are  styles in that. You need only one styve when it works. You need not reinvent a wheel.

1) mesh floor open

2) solid bottom which has only 5% area that of mesh floor. Interior is warm and relative humidity keeps the hive dry.

3) Then, many close the mesh floor over winter.

4) 10 cm high bottom space

and so on

Iinked that youtube earlier. This guy has 1100 hives and solid poly bottoms.

Out temp -25C

bees wintering in finland


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edward
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« Reply #170 on: December 09, 2012, 01:23:11 PM »

That guy make polyhives and sell them at least to 10 country in Europe. He lives near me and I ask from him if I need some advices.
In those days  Sweden had this kind of hives .Same with Finland Practically it has one brood and one or two supers.


Which company is it? paradise honey?

If I only wanted 2 or 5 hives in the bottom of the garden I would probably use the old wooden hives beeecause they look good and are a Jewel in the garden.
But beecause I want to make a lot of honey and I think that its more fun with more hives I have chosen poly hives.
Most of the new beekeepers have gone over to langsthoth size hives, 3/4 langsthoth(shallow) is popular.
I use 10 frames dadant( double deep) with a queen excluder and 3/4 langstroth as supers. With a solid high bottom with rear ventalation.
wooden frames with wax in the brood chamber and plastic frames in the supers.

mvh edward  tongue
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Finski
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« Reply #171 on: December 09, 2012, 01:28:54 PM »



If I only wanted 2 or 5 hives in the bottom of the garden I would probably use the old wooden hives beeecause they look good and are a Jewel in the garden.


But you cannot put modern queens in those little hives. It explodes out and swarms.

In Norway they keep their German Black bees and they favour still old style hives.
Hives made in Russia  http://84922.ru.all.biz/sv/goods_ligg-bikupa_920052
ru home pages

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Finski
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« Reply #172 on: December 09, 2012, 01:38:08 PM »

.
Polyhives had thinner walls a few years ago.

Look the deep part of the wall (mirror)





New model, like Paradise Honey,  have thick walls, They are all around 4 cm thick. So inner cover must have better insulation.
I have measured the surface temperatures of various models and they have big differencies.

The model is for professional beekeeping. It is a production unit, and not a beauty in garden.


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derekm
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« Reply #173 on: December 09, 2012, 01:54:47 PM »

.
....
The model is for professional beekeeping. It is a production unit, and not a beauty in garden.




I own some of those, kept bees in them over winter and and have performed thermal measurements on them.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 04:08:16 PM by derekm » Logged

If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
edward
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« Reply #174 on: December 09, 2012, 03:49:18 PM »

Polyhives had thinner walls a few years ago.
The model is for professional beekeeping. It is a production unit, and not a beauty in garden

I don't like the ones that you have to glue together, but they are cheaper to ship.

With a few licks of paint one can turn ugly boxes into something nice, same color as your house, natural color so the blend in to the background nature.

mvh edward  tongue
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BlueBee
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« Reply #175 on: December 09, 2012, 07:48:00 PM »

So what is the entrance and venting configuration on those paradise honey hives?  Based on the photo it appears they are using a mid entrance and no top vents?  That looks very similar to the homemade design I’ve been using.  It has worked wonderfully so far for me.  My design also has walls that are approx 4cm thick.  As I’ve suggested earlier, it appears to me that a hive with only 20 to 25mm thick poly walls can act like a freezer if you’re not careful. Wink  More insulation is good.  Smiley


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derekm
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« Reply #176 on: December 10, 2012, 07:35:44 AM »

So what is the entrance and venting configuration on those paradise honey hives?  Based on the photo it appears they are using a mid entrance and no top vents?  That looks very similar to the homemade design I’ve been using.  It has worked wonderfully so far for me.  My design also has walls that are approx 4cm thick.  As I’ve suggested earlier, it appears to me that a hive with only 20 to 25mm thick poly walls can act like a freezer if you’re not careful. Wink  More insulation is good.  Smiley




The system is normally bottom entrance only when imported into the UK. the manufacturer make the pieces that each market required
http://www.paradisehoney.fi/EN/Beekeeping_products/Polystyrene_Hives/BeeBox_Series_Manual
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
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« Reply #177 on: December 10, 2012, 10:22:15 AM »

Derekm, thanks for the website link.  Isn’t it very interesting that the Finnish professionals are moving in the same direction as you and I with our super insulated poly designs.  It is also very interesting that they are resurrecting the Dadant jumbo sized brood box.  That is also something I have found works very well.
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« Reply #178 on: December 11, 2012, 12:19:14 AM »

I own some of those, kept bees in them over winter and and have performed thermal measurements on them.

So Derek, how did those Finnish hives compare to your homemade super hive in your thermal measurements?

Does their polystyrene have a tough enough surface to prevent wax moths and ants from boring through them?

I kind of like the idea of an open screen on the bottom in the winter IF I had snow is piled up around the bottom protecting it from drafts.  I did have 1 nuc die off last week that had an open screen bottom and no snow protection.
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edward
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« Reply #179 on: December 11, 2012, 07:58:06 AM »

Does their polystyrene have a tough enough surface to prevent wax moths and ants from boring through them?quote]

If you paint the it make it harder for ants to burrow in the poly

mvh edward  tongue
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