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Author Topic: this sums it up  (Read 7802 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2012, 11:32:42 AM »

Quote
Actually, I say it all the time, yet am attacked for i

i think what we question is some of your out to lunch conspiracy stuff.  it's not that complicated.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #61 on: November 20, 2012, 11:53:36 AM »

"out to lunch", heh?

Having spent a considerable amount of my adult life working for Federal and State Government I think I know a few things about conspiracies, particularly government related.

And you're right, most are not complicated at all.  It is 'people' who complicate them after being manipulated one way or the other.  Our divisions are no accident.

"Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep.  Starts when you're always afraid, Step out of line, the Man comes and takes you away."  S. Stills
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« Reply #62 on: November 20, 2012, 05:17:34 PM »

Working for the government all your adult life would no way influence your objectivity would it T? Smiley
  I know people that work most of their adult lives with the UAW often cannot make their own decisions but vote what the union tells them too.
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T Beek
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« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2012, 06:13:42 AM »

Do these 'assumptions' ever end?
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T Beek
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« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2012, 07:07:39 AM »

Working for the government all your adult life would no way influence your objectivity would it T? Smiley
  I know people that work most of their adult lives with the UAW often cannot make their own decisions but vote what the union tells them too.

Had no idea you were such a divider Ken  Sad.  Thanks for reading my entire post  rolleyes

Never said I worked for Government 'all' my adult life (you said that), but starting 10 days after turning 17  (military) and then on and off for nearly 40 years, I somehow accumulated 21 years of "service" to "our" Country from Federal and State Government.  In between Government stints I've done all kinds of work, established 2 businesses, sold both for a profit, raised a family and built my own home.  How about you Ken?

Your 'influence' came from...........? I bet I can guess  grin

"We can lead people to knowledge but we can't make them think"
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« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2012, 08:49:59 PM »

Conceded,
You did say a "considerable' amount.But in reading your post it seems your saying because of your experience there you know more about conspiracies and it is "others" that are influenced. Using the word "considerable" would lead most to believe closer to most than  just a few. But that may be just me. If I read that wrong,I apologize,but that is what I took from that post.
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T Beek
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« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2012, 06:23:10 AM »

Ken,

Huh?  Your post was a bit confusing.  Not sure what you're asking me.  The fact is I've been personally involved in and/or have knowledge of many of our Nations conspiracies starting in the Military and continuing throughout my time "IN SERVICE" to this Country (they do exist and they're all around despite the 'manipulated' deniers).

I'll share one; Back in the late 80's while serving in Panama I had a friend who was at FT Bragg at the time and had received orders for Panama, so he looked me up and presented me with all kinds of q about the local.  This dude is the ultimate unsung warrior and at the time he had no idea what he would be doing in country.  There are many of these guys all around us. 

I'd been pretty busy as 'we' (America) were preparing to occupy 'in force' that little Country (hardly the first time) and remove Manual Noriega from the Dictatorship "we" gave him, as our 'strong man' in Panama.  There was an event whereby an American diplomat's wife had been accosted by some Panamanian Soldiers (the reason I was there).

In the midst of the investigation involving the diplomats wife I got pulled to help investigate a rash of sniper shootings directed at our soldiers.  No one had been hit but the sniper was active daily and at all hours.  Needless to say this worked up the troops who were only provided 2 mags of ammo, were ordered NOT to fire back.  Frankly most were pretty raw at the time.  How time changes everything, heh?

Never got to the bottom of either of these (higher authorities shut things down before I could finish my work) but about 2 years later I got together w/ my "friend" from Ft Bragg (a civilian then) had a few drinks and he told me his story........Turns out 'he' was the sniper in Panama, ordered to take pot shots at his own people in order to "prepare" (that bloodlust thing) them for the coming occupation.  Hows that?  Its just a little conspiracy, but people did die in the end.

One of my favorite conspiracies involves HOW (and why) HARRY TRUMAN BECAME PRESIDENT.  Its a Democratic action enacted by Democrats so it may peak the interest of some of you DEM Haters  grin

More than likely most Americans NEVER heard of FDR's VP Henry Wallace, but he was the 2nd most popular man in the Country after FDR and a sure bet for the Presidency after FDR finished his (4th) term or died first.

Yeah, now there's a conspiracy to be proud of  cheesy.  This Country would look very different had Henry Wallace been allowed to take his rightful place in the oval office. 

See; the 1944 Democratic Convention in Chicago and the blatant conspiracy that was conducted by Party Bosses to insure Henry Wallace was NOT on the ticket.  Fascinating and very disturbing piece of American history that you'll never learn about in our schools. 

 I got a zillion of them  Wink




+++SURE HOPE EVERYONE FINDS SOMETHING TO BE THANKFUL FOR TODAY (and everyday)+++
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T Beek
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« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2012, 08:12:57 AM »

The world regularly 'conspires' against individual freedom while the masses remain insidiously complicit in that conspiracy.  Look around for plentiful examples.

During this life I've come to understand the fearsome persecution delivered on people who hold 'unsettling' views too well, and perhaps it 'has' jaded me some.  Life can have the affect.

However; 'understanding' something is not the same as  accepting it.

"if you want to establish some concept of a society, go find out who is in jail."  John Dewey

I'll add that its equally important to know who is not in jail.
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iddee
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« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2012, 08:38:05 AM »

Careful there, TBEEK. You have actually made a sensible post. Maybe it's due to being Thanksgiving.   evil

Take smoking, for example. Not discussing good or bad, but the way the GIV'MINT has spent 40 plus years condemning it, taking away the smoker's rights, and bombarding it with new restrictions, all the while taxing it by the billions, if not trillions. They won't outlaw it and lose all that tax, but they will keep easing new rules into it to keep the taxes rising.

PS. Happy Thanksgiving.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2012, 09:00:46 AM »

Ahhh......what kind of 'smoking' are we talking about?  grin 

Although I've quit a thousand times (pretty easy to quit, really) I still smoke....tobacco  Wink
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iddee
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« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2012, 11:47:14 AM »

I haven't had a cigarette since Oct. 31, 1998.

I switched to nicotine gum. I tell people I can now ""smoke""anywhere I want. Planes, hospitals, you name it. No one even knows I have the gum in my mouth.

But I was talking about how the GIV'MINT will slowly take away your freedoms and replace them with higher taxes. NOT a good trade, in my opinion.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2012, 03:18:13 PM »

I quit smoking  Sept. 1988 ,cold turkey, and have never wanted one since . no pun on turkey day..
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kathyp
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« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2012, 09:28:26 PM »

uggg

i quit 6 weeks ago and i still want one.  the ecigs help, believe it or not.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2012, 11:41:01 PM »

Uggg, I see my tax dollars going up in smoke…… Sad

I’ve never understood how anybody can smoke with all the known (and unknown) carcinogens and other toxins in cigarettes.  Might as well be drinking arsenic too.  Can somebody explain this behavior to me?

(I give T Beek a pass, because whatever he’s doing up there in Wisconsin, it’s working.  He’s certainly an enlightened individual).
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kathyp
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« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2012, 10:03:54 AM »

sure.  we like(ed) it and it's addictive.  i don't understand why people ski.  i don't understand eating yourself into obesity.  i don't understand mountain climbing.

i don't understand living in a city where the daily level of carcinogens inhaled and absorbed can be higher than if you smoke.  maybe we should outlaw cities?

again, if the government were not involved in health care, others behavior would have no impact on you.

guess what has increased as smoking has gone down?  obesity.  guess what's costing as much as smoking now?  obesity.  guess where the highest level of obesity is?  the poor.  those people to whom we give food stamps and 2 or 3 meals a day in schools.  not only are you paying for the obesity, but you are paying for the means by which they become obese.

 grin

that ought to be good for some new conversation!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #75 on: November 23, 2012, 02:13:58 PM »

You have seemed a little bit on edge lately KathyP……. Maybe this explains some of it. grin
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asprince
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« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2012, 06:22:16 PM »

You have a point kathy. My health insurance company in addition to a smoker surcharge are now requiring BMI health checks. I see a fat surcharge in the future.

I have a contract with the local school to collect their used vegetable oil. (make fuel my trucks with it) Last year year I was collecting about 200 gallons per month. This year zero for the year. They are no longer frying large amounts of chicken strips and french fries. They are now serving healthier foods. The kids call it slop.


Steve   
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« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2012, 11:17:00 AM »

You have a point kathy. My health insurance company in addition to a smoker surcharge are now requiring BMI health checks. I see a fat surcharge in the future.

I have a contract with the local school to collect their used vegetable oil. (make fuel my trucks with it) Last year year I was collecting about 200 gallons per month. This year zero for the year. They are no longer frying large amounts of chicken strips and french fries. They are now serving healthier foods. The kids call it slop.


Steve   
My kids prefer it, but my kids are used to eating better Smiley

I don't see it as a conspiracy. It's very simple. People who smoke and/or are obese cost the health insurance companies more money. I don't smoke, drink, am not obese, exercise a lot and eat great food. I do NOT want to have exorbitant health insurance costs because many others choose a riskier lifestyle.
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« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2012, 11:31:13 AM »

Exactly my thoughts! 

That is the point I’ve been trying to get across to our conservative friends too.  They seem to think they live in their own little world and their bad behaviors have absolutely no impact (and cost) upon the rest of us.  Simply not true. 
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« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2012, 11:43:05 AM »

You have a point kathy. My health insurance company in addition to a smoker surcharge are now requiring BMI health checks. I see a fat surcharge in the future.

I have a contract with the local school to collect their used vegetable oil. (make fuel my trucks with it) Last year year I was collecting about 200 gallons per month. This year zero for the year. They are no longer frying large amounts of chicken strips and french fries. They are now serving healthier foods. The kids call it slop.


Steve   
My kids prefer it, but my kids are used to eating better Smiley

I don't see it as a conspiracy. It's very simple. People who smoke and/or are obese cost the health insurance companies more money. I don't smoke, drink, am not obese, exercise a lot and eat great food. I do NOT want to have exorbitant health insurance costs because many others choose a riskier lifestyle.

I don't' drink, smoke, eat unhealthy, I'm not overweight, I walk and exercise regularly. And I still do not want to pay for your insurance or anyones insurance for that matter as Obamacare is going to require me to do, weather or not they smoke or they are fat and lazy.
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