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Author Topic: this sums it up  (Read 6612 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 11:47:42 AM »

she won't watch it because she only uses WPR as a source of info.  it's balanced.

i gave her links with the socialists describing how they were working within the dem party to achieve their goals, but my links were  were "partisan".  i suppose that's true.  a socialist site would be kind of partisan i guess. 

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bluegrass
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« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2012, 11:56:24 AM »

It strikes me as odd that US Conservatives are looking to the great socialist north for their inspiration on conservatism... Just saying. Makes me question what Canada's stake is? I have seen more Canadian input on this election than any election in the past. Actually... I haven't ever seen Canadian input in any prior US election. Their disenfranchised Conservatives should move down here and join the Republican movement... Heck they might lead the party in the direction of winning again.
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sterling
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« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2012, 12:02:51 PM »

Kathy, I know what you mean. One can do a google shearch with the names of the people and communist connections and learn alot about what is going on but most don't really want to know what is going on as long as they think they are going to get this great Govt.  health care. You have got to give Obama and Axlerod credit for there ability to make people believe their lies.
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sterling
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« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2012, 12:06:31 PM »

It strikes me as odd that US Conservatives are looking to the great socialist north for their inspiration on conservatism... Just saying. Makes me question what Canada's stake is? I have seen more Canadian input on this election than any election in the past. Actually... I haven't ever seen Canadian input in any prior US election. Their disenfranchised Conservatives should move down here and join the Republican movement... Heck they might lead the party in the direction of winning again.

Maybe not from Canada but I have seen alot of input from some commie countries giving Obama support.
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kathyp
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« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2012, 12:09:06 PM »

bluegrass, 1st, there are conservatives in canada.  they are more conservative as a nation now, than we are.

2nd, the writer is a transplant.  she lives here now and i believe that's in the article.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2012, 12:26:56 PM »

I read her "trip to obama-mart" rant and learned all I need to know about her... She can continue to transplant southward... I hear Mexico is nice. I get the feeling she came south for the same reasons some liberals I know have moved north.... If she is already dissatisfied with our direction she is going to be doing a lot of transplanting in her life.

She refers to the series "the men who built America" but obviously never watched it... or she would know about Carnegie and the Johnstown flood that killed 2000 people or his strike at his Homestead mill where private security forces shot and killed 9 workers and the Gov had to send the state Guard in to end the violence.   
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carlfaba10t
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« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2012, 03:15:16 PM »

Well all i got to say is when it gets too "DEEP" for my hip boots it,s time to move to higher ground.
You all have fun and a great turkey day. grin 
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Carl-I have done so much with so little for so long i can now do something with nothing!
T Beek
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« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2012, 03:19:38 PM »

Well, there's conservatism and then there's Conservatism and in some cases the actions and certainly the consequences of each don't even come close to resembling each other.  

Examples are plentiful these days.

OK, so I think most posters here seem to agree; something about the system (or is it just the "current" administration?) is rigged against the people if I got that right.  

Some of us get it, and others are blind, dumb or those lousy "takers" right?

You know, I do believe this rigging against the wishes of the people has kinda always been here though.  

They're just getting better at manipulating it and us is all.  They've got access to some amazing technology that would simply blow the minds of average Americans.

Based on these posts however, I think some may be failing to include those on the 'other side' of the coin and that is indeed a dangerous mindset IMO.  Some of you are looking for an enemy where there is none, that's fairly plain and a shame.  It also leaves you open for a surprise.

"Not all who crap on you are your enemy."  
"Not all who dig you out of crap are your friend."

P.S. You all know; Goldman Sacks owned (s) Obama and Romney both, right, along w/ the majority in both Houses?  Sorry, don't mean to be off topic, but maybe I'm not  Wink.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2012, 06:04:34 PM »

she won't watch it because she only uses WPR as a source of info.  it's balanced.

i gave her links with the socialists describing how they were working within the dem party to achieve their goals, but my links were  were "partisan".  i suppose that's true.  a socialist site would be kind of partisan i guess. 
Not what I said at all. I just prefer news sources that at least attempt both sides of the story.
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The pedigree of honey
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kathyp
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« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2012, 06:35:29 PM »

Quote
Not what I said at all. I just prefer news sources that at least attempt both sides of the story.

i wouldn't expect balance from the international socialist review.  it exists to give the socialist point of view.  for that reason, it's interesting to read what they have to say.  knowing what different groups believe is an important way to learn.  how do you know you are getting balance if you don't know what people believe?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2012, 02:36:53 AM »

I read it. I still haven't heard anyone give a specific example of communist behavior from our govt officials. What new programs do we have that speak of communism? How can you even suggest communism when there is a wealth gap like we currently have? The very premise of communism is equal pay for everyone, and we have (I believe) the largest gap between haves and have nots this nation has ever seen. Just not seeing it.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
T Beek
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« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2012, 09:03:22 AM »

SEE; Plutocracy or Corporatism or Fascism for more realistic examples of today's economic control methods. 

Are there 'any' socialist governments on the planet?  Have there ever been?  Really?  Better think about this one. 

I'm not talking about Governments w/ enlightened social programs so its time to step out of that box (or bubble) I've referred to previously, but true Socialism, or Communism, or Democracy for that matter, because "none of them" have ever lived up to their 'hype' yet, as of today anyway. 

The powerful among us will NOT (completely) tolerate  any of the above because under all systems they lose their power (stranglehold). 

I too would like to know specifically what has been accomplished to convince so many that we are somehow headed toward a socialist State, but not just over the past 4 years, how about the last 40, just to keep things in perspective.   

It is apparent that many of you didn't manifest any political interests until 4-5 years ago (I wonder why) as evidenced by some of the postings, so to understand where 'we' are, some need to do some homework. 

The conversation will become more intelligent if we all know what each other is talking about.

IMO; the false "assumptions" directed toward others and the negative (self-serving) "opinions" that accompany them need a long rest.

"it is always the weak argument that resorts to ridicule."

READY....SET....GO!  grin
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kathyp
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« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2012, 10:12:03 AM »

Quote
I read it. I still haven't heard anyone give a specific example of communist behavior from our govt officials. What new programs do we have that speak of communism? How can you even suggest communism when there is a wealth gap like we currently have? The very premise of communism is equal pay for everyone, and we have (I believe) the largest gap between haves and have nots this nation has ever seen. Just not seeing it.

i think you have completely missed the point.  + i think you need to study socialism and communism. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2012, 10:29:47 AM »

Back at ya  Wink
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iddee
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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2012, 10:43:07 AM »

T Beek, you didn't answer my question about an employee adding 30,000 to your company's total revenue. Would you still pay him 50,000 until you went broke, or would you get rid of him?
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kathyp
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« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2012, 01:15:18 PM »

Quote
Back at ya

i don't think that communist ideology drives obama even though he was brought up by, and surrounded by, communists most of his life.  the anti-colonialist explanation more closely fits his actions.  however, the anti-colonialist drive fits nicely with the communist ideology.  that would explain how he has come to be surrounded by so many communists and socialists.  for them, he is a convenient vehicle for their goals.  if he punishes the white colonialists while he's at it, so much the better.

luvin, progressiveism and socialism are one in the same.  the only difference between the practice of socialism and the practice of communism, is a matter of degrees. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2012, 10:16:42 AM »

T Beek, you didn't answer my question about an employee adding 30,000 to your company's total revenue. Would you still pay him 50,000 until you went broke, or would you get rid of him?

 rolleyes  You didn't ask the Q here so why would I answer you here?

SEE: Post Re; "I think I have an idea, reply #54".  

You know, I 'knew' all along that you weren't reading what was being sent your way, because you spend so much time 'assuming' to know where I'm coming from instead of giving enough time to absorb 'another' opinion.  Its kind obvious iddee.  

Don't feel bad, I've asked dozens of questions that "remain" unanswered at this place.

This 'prejudging' that takes place so easily around here brings me back to High School.

Not to get religious on you but there really is a very good reason why God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth  Wink
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iddee
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« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2012, 11:50:49 AM »

As usual, NO, you did not answer it. Your answer concerned employees that were at least letting you break even although not making a profit. My question concerned you paying an individual employee more than he is contributing.

""You know, I 'knew' all along that you weren't reading what was being sent your way,""

Look who's talking. Your statement was miles away from answering my question that you "supposedly" read. Maybe you should look in a mirror and read your quote above.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2012, 12:02:34 PM »

Well for sure the system is broke. The government spending on things is has no business being involved in is not a issue I have had only in the last four or five years. The perpetuation of it is a crime. When the Dems had all houses it exploded.
For most of my adult life I have seen ever increasing power over the states by the federal government.
Here is an excerpt from here by Justice Scalia which I think speaks volumes:
http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/guest_commentary/scalia-constitutional-speech.htm



"Now, in asserting that originalism used to be orthodoxy, I do not mean to imply that judges did not distort the Constitution now and then, of course they did. We had willful judges then, and we will have willful judges until the end of time. But the difference is that prior to the last 50 years or so, prior to the advent of the “Living Constitution,” judges did their distortions the good old fashioned way, the honest way — they lied about it. They said the Constitution means such and such, when it never meant such and such.

It’s a big difference that you now no longer have to lie about it, because we are in the era of the evolving Constitution. And the judge can simply say, “Oh yes, the Constitution didn’t used to mean that, but it does now.” We are in the age in which not only judges, not only lawyers, but even school children have come to learn the Constitution changes. I have grammar school students come into the Court now and then, and they recite very proudly what they have been taught: “The Constitution is a living document.” You know, it morphs."

This is how the feds have manged bit by bit to overstep their Constitutional bounds and acquire powers left to the  people and the states.


   
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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2012, 12:09:20 PM »

For all concerned,lets loosen the upper shirt buttons( figuratively not literally) and blow off the steam before we have a blowout in the forum!! I don't agree many times,but good conversation for the most part.
Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. I didn't post here with any real expectation of changing the others mind. I think we all have our own values and ideology .And as such we must try to keep our conversations on a civil level.
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