Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
April 17, 2014, 12:44:22 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I think I have an idea  (Read 4457 times)
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14807


Location: boring, oregon


« on: November 15, 2012, 02:27:49 PM »

So the people have spoken and the welfare state expands.  If we are going to do this, we need to stop fussing about taxes and stuff like that.  I think we can be more efficient. 

one thing we have to do is define 'living wage'.  that's the only hitch in my plan, i think.

once we have done that, we take everyone who makes more than the living wage and pair them with people who are 'poor'.  the amount you make over the living wage will determine how many people are assigned to you.  you might get an entire family! 

rather than being taxed to support these folks, you will directly care for them.  no bureaucracy involved.  in fact, we could solve the housing problem the same way.  if you have more than the sq ft you need for comfort, you share your dwelling.  we will have to figure out that comfort thing, but it shouldn't be to hard. 

seems to me this would be more efficient and practical.  you'd cut out all the middle men who cost so much administering all these welfare programs.  you wouldn't need to many rules.  of course, there would have to be some oversight because we couldn't allow anyone to judge the lifestyle of the people they were supporting, or to maybe horde or hide some of their income/stuff. 

oh, speaking of stuff....even poor people need transportation.  we need to look into a more equitable distribution of vehicles.  maybe if you are assigned folks to look after, you should be required to share your car(s) with them...or even give up a car or two.  you can only drive one at a time.......

equality achieved.  fair share paid.  what do you think?

Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Fox Creek
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 406

Location: Pollock Pines Ca.


« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 02:51:51 PM »

Very funny. Now I'm really depressed!

I like Deknow's idea, agreeing with Paul Ryan.....Just give each one a check for $23000.00
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 03:14:01 PM by Fox Creek » Logged
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 02:56:51 PM »

It's interesting to me that you never seem to talk about corporate welfare. Just people who can't get jobs right now.

I often think: "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14807


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 03:15:38 PM »

Quote
It's interesting to me that you never seem to talk about corporate welfare. Just people who can't get jobs right now.

i have no idea what you are talking about.  i have spoken many times about crony capitalism.  as for people who can't get jobs right now, i have no beef with them.  in this market, it's the rule, not the exception.  the question is:  why can't they get jobs?  you are feed a carrot to the back end of a horse.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2012, 03:36:03 PM »

It's so easy to demonize poor people, which you are doing in this thread. Or to demonize people who feel there should be a safety net. Perhaps if corporations looked out for their employees rather than doing whatever it takes to fatten up the CEOs and top managements, we wouldn't have so many people needing a safety net.

Perhaps rather than asking Democrats to adopt poor families you could focus on getting corporations to stop sucking off the gov't tit, and then paying their employees (or, lack of employees, when they cut jobs) so little that they must also do so.

I like the clause in the new healthcare plan that will penalize employees if they don't pay enough to their employees so that employees must seek welfare.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14807


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 03:54:33 PM »

Quote
Perhaps if corporations looked out for their employees rather than doing whatever it takes to fatten up the CEOs and top managements, we wouldn't have so many people needing a safety net.

does a corporation exist to "look after people"?

Quote
It's so easy to demonize poor people, which you are doing in this thread.

not poor people.  used to be one.  didn't think i needed someone to support me then.  don't think they need me to support them now.

Quote
Perhaps rather than asking Democrats to adopt poor families you could focus on getting corporations to stop sucking off the gov't tit,

oh no.  i want to be fair.  all of us will do this.
 
you are talking about crony capitalism which i have always been against.  they thing you need to look at is why/how does it happen?  1st, in order for a company to get into bed with the government, there has to be a bed.  the government provides the bed.  2nd companies would have not need to get into bed with the government if they were not constantly fighting regulations that needlessly interfere with business. 
why would a company even interact with government except that government is interacting with them by way of legislation.

Quote
I like the clause in the new healthcare plan that will penalize employees if they don't pay enough to their employees so that employees must seek welfare.

i am unaware of this clause, but i'm not surprised you like it.  so...two men working for the same company doing the same job, one with no kids and one with 10, will be paid different wages so that the one with 10 doesn't need welfare.  that seems fair to me....and after all, we are all about fairness.

i think my solution is easier.



Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 04:01:18 PM »

I think the idea is to have affordable health insurance so the employer will not just pass on a welfare "needer" to the govt. ie: employer subsidized rather than govt subsidized.

I'll have to chat with my R business-owning parents about it when they visit this weekend. I'd like to know how it might affect them. I think it's only for employers with more than 50 employees, and I think they're below that a bit.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14807


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 04:04:42 PM »

Quote
I think the idea is to have affordable health insurance so the employer will not just pass on a welfare "needer" to the govt.

ah and this is why people are losing insurance.  the government mandated a much more expensive insurance than many business can afford.  as a out, they allow the business to cancel insurance and pay a fine that is less than the cost of insurance.  this is what many businesses  are doing.   you might think this was a mistake in the way the bill was written, but it's not.
remember, i told you that this bill was designed to destroy private insurance.  part of the way it will do this is to make private insurance or work insurance so expensive that people will be forced onto the exchanges.  that's only on short step from single payer....which is the goal.  won't take more than a few years, i think. 
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14807


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 04:05:30 PM »

wondered something.

why is it bad to "demonize" poor people, but it's ok to do the same to rich?  did the rich make the poor, poor?
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 04:08:58 PM »

I don't believe I have demonized the rich. I have some wealthy people in my own family. I love them. I have demonized greedy corporate CEOs. Easy targets, I know.

The rich hold the power. They have access (or ARE) to people who make the laws. Things will generally go well for the rich. The entire system was set up for them and by them. I don't worry about the rich making it in life. And I don't hate them or envy them. I'm perfectly happy in my middle class existence and want to be neither poor nor rich.

And I need to learn a LOT more about the exchanges, etc. I was listening to a WPR program about it on my way into work this morning but had to miss a lot of it once I got to work.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14807


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 04:18:32 PM »

Quote
The rich hold the power. They have access (or ARE) to people who make the laws.

this is the argument for the government sticking to what it is constitutionally mandated to do!  good grief.  there is no reason for you to be a liberal if you think that people should be free of the dictates and constraints of the rule makers.

it is true that conservatism requires hard work and personal responsibility. the reward is the freedom.  i would rather be free and broke, than have all of these wonderful programs and live in the chains of the government and it's mandates.  what someone else pays for, they control.

live free or die was not meant to be just a slogan.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2012, 04:29:00 PM »

It's hard to have a conversation when you constantly swerve back onto the topic of welfare. There is so much more to gov't than welfare. I dare say you rely on government programs also, like the highway system. Perhaps you've visited national parks? Were you publicly educated? Do you use libraries? Vote in a town hall? I realize not all of that is federal govt, and maybe that's your point. Smiley
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
AllenF
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 8070

Location: Hiram, Georgia


« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2012, 05:29:36 PM »

In fiscal year 2011, the federal government spent $3.6 trillion, amounting to 24 percent of the nation's Gross Domestic Product (GDP). While the level of 2011 expenditures - as a share of GDP - remains high due to the economic downturn, the composition of the budget largely resembles the patterns of recent years. Of that $3.6 trillion, $2.2 trillion was financed by federal tax revenues, and $83 billion by excess profits on assets held by the Federal Reserve. The remaining $1.3 trillion was financed by borrowing; this deficit will ultimately be paid for by future taxpayers. (See box for the recession's impact on the budget.) As shown in the graph below, three major areas of spending each make up about one-fifth of the budget:
Defense and international security assistance: In 2011, 20 percent of the budget, or $718 billion, paid for defense and security-related international activities. The bulk of the spending in this category reflects the underlying costs of the Department of Defense and other security-related activities. The total also includes the cost of supporting operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, funding for which totaled $159 billion in 2011.
Social Security: Another 20 percent of the budget, or $731 billion, paid for Social Security, which provided retirement benefits averaging $1,229 per month to 35.6 million retired workers in December 2011. Social Security also provided benefits to 2.9 million spouses and children of retired workers, 6.3 million surviving children and spouses of deceased workers, and 10.6 million disabled workers and their eligible dependents in December 2011.
Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP: Three health insurance programs - Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) - together accounted for 21 percent of the budget in 2011, or $769 billion. Nearly two-thirds of this amount, or $486 billion, went to Medicare, which provides health coverage to around 48 million people who are over the age of 65 or have disabilities. The remainder of this category funds Medicaid and CHIP, which in a typical month in 2011 provided health care or long-term care to about 60 million low-income children, parents, elderly people, and people with disabilities. Both Medicaid and CHIP require matching payments from the states.
Safety net programs: About 13 percent of the federal budget in 2011, or $466 billion, went to support programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14807


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2012, 05:36:56 PM »

Quote
There is so much more to gov't than welfare. I dare say you rely on government programs also, like the highway system. Perhaps you've visited national parks? Were you publicly educated? Do you use libraries? Vote in a town hall? I realize not all of that is federal govt, and maybe that's your point. Smiley

that is part of my point.  do you know that the federal government sits on enough oil land to make us energy self sufficient and debt free if that oil were recovered?  they own about 20% of the land, most of that in the west.  do i think that having the feds owning 20% of the land and keeping people from developing, drilling, and using it, is a good idea?  no.  we have a few and long ago chosen monuments that we felt were worth preserving.  what the heck is the fed doing owning the rest of that land?

libraries, town halls, etc. are state and local things.  public education is a failure.  it is run by the leftist unions who support the leftist pols, who shovel more money to the unions, while the students fail.  the best thing we could do for kids is end the public schools system completely.  take the money that is spent.  give it back to the parents to spend on the education then want.  get the flippin' unions out of it.  competition improves all produces.  education should be treated like a product.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5219


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2012, 06:14:25 PM »

Corporate welfare is not truly welfare. Welfare is directly subsidizing with taxpayer monies like we did with Solyndra,GM ,the A123 battery company.
http://nhregister.com/articles/2012/10/16/news/doc507d7e8d8ec06379649132.txt
A tax break on earnings, not bankruptcies running off with taxpayer dollars is quite different. To get earnings they need to invest their own money and produce something that is purchased by a consumer to have earnings.That provided revenue from a tax paying employee along with corporate taxes and taxes on the dividends that investors received.
So you see corporate welfare is a word the libs concocted to make you think the government writes out a monthly check to said corporations.Another lie perpetuated by the MSM.
Corporations need to produce to survive,sadly governments do not. They need to distribute other peoples money to survive.
That is confiscate and regift.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14807


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2012, 06:23:50 PM »

tax incentives are a great way to attract business.  that's why so many states give businesses a tax break to move to their state.  not taking someones money, is not welfare. 
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5219


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2012, 06:26:55 PM »

I would gladly see most things returned to the states. The states can better determine their needs than the federal government. As far as the federal highway system,the government didn't pay for it. The taxpayers did.Where do you think this money comes from. Why do so many people think it is a good idea to send the money to Washington and then have to send people to fight to get it back or let some bureaucrat determine that your states tax share is better spent somewhere else.
Do you like the idea that while most of the libs in Washington are touting we need more money in public schools and trying to force your kids into public schools that they send their own kids to private schools and academies. Watch what they do not what they say. Our nation was founded on the idea of personal freedoms without the shackles of an all encompassing federal government. Most people forget the founders fought with their lives to get out from under the King and his mandates from far away. We are heading back into what our founders fought to do away with.
Logged
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5219


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2012, 07:09:04 PM »

Here is a a part of Patrick Henry's speech to the House of Burgess that may be once again on the horizons:

" They tell us, sir, that we are weak—unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?

Sir, we are not weak, if we make a proper use of the means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us.

The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable—and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come!

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, “Peace! Peace!”—but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
Logged
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012, 08:20:03 PM »

tax incentives are a great way to attract business.  that's why so many states give businesses a tax break to move to their state.  not taking someones money, is not welfare. 
And yet those corporations benefit from police protection, snow removal, the road system---all paid for by taxpayers. And some of their underpaid employees get foodstamps and state-funded healthcare, again paid for by taxpayers. This all so that the corporation can make great profits (under the guise of bringing jobs to an area). I call that welfare.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 14807


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2012, 08:42:43 PM »

i don't think anyone is saying that business shoudn't pay taxes.  business shouldn't be punished for making a profit.  why else would business exist if not for profit?

Quote
And yet those corporations benefit from police protection, snow removal, the road system---all paid for by taxpayers.

and the tax payers have income from where?

Quote
And some of their underpaid employees get foodstamps and state-funded healthcare,

underpaid by who's calculation?  the food stamp and medical is an issue unto itself.  the real question might be 'should the state be paying for these things?' but that's between you and your state.

Quote
This all so that the corporation can make great profits (under the guise of bringing jobs to an area).

define "great profit".  should someone be in charge of profit regulation? 
you don't have to give any benefits to companies for moving into your area.  don't let your state or municipality do it.  let the companies go elsewhere and you can preserve your sense of well-being.




Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.345 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page April 02, 2014, 10:51:10 PM