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Author Topic: My first hive, problems overcome, new report and pics feb 12  (Read 11478 times)
Jack Parr
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« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2005, 10:03:36 PM »

Quote from: mick
Well I opened it up and took some pics but i was in a hurry so nothing worth posting.

The first and second frames are pretty much glued together and to each other but are chocka block full of bees. The third frame is covered in bees both sides and looks straight, no warping. The fourth is also heavily covered on one side and lightly on the other. All these seems to be being filled and capped so all looks good.

The other frames need to be refondationed (?) so I think I will try to buy some already embedded.

One sheet of wax was lying at the bottom on the hive, acting as sort of a rubbish trap.[ There are lots of small white eggs and some 2mm long white thin maggots i think crwling around. they are as thin as a human hair and have brown heads and crawl like a catepillar with the back hunching. I suspect they might have been eating the foundation. Any ideas guys? They remind me of fruit fly larvae, just a spec.]

Aside from that they look happy enough, thre were more in the hive than I expected, but i spose there are a lot more bees now!



The wax moths have invaded your hive and you will lose all of your bees if you do not take some action RIGHT NOW.  The bees will abscond leaving you a mess of trash to contend  with and it won't take long.

You may not have enough bees in your box for them to combat the Wax moth/ worms.

Move your bees into a " nuc " box if you have one or partion off part of your box and block off the entrance part that is not being used. If you keep the bees tight as you can they will cope with those worms.
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mick
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« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2005, 11:45:38 PM »

Well I took everyones advice, tightened the hive up and blocked off all the cracks. The wood wasnt seasoned when I put it together. I made a moth trap outa water vinegar sugar and a banana peel and hung it in a nearby tree.

Tpday it was over 100 degrees and when I checked the hive it was way too hot. They wre not happy, hundreds outside the opening trying to cool down. I gave then a few light hoses which they seemed to love. They carried a lot of it back into the hive. Lots also gathered on the wet top to have a drink. I shaded it and will move it tomorrow to a better spot.

Change of seasons and the sun shifting caught me out. Its back into the 80s now and all is back to normal in the hive. I have left a crack under the roof for cooling as tomorrow is gunna be 105 shocked
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Finsky
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« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2005, 01:12:20 AM »

Problems is that you have not told where you live? In Austaralia or in Canada. Difficult to know your circumtancies.
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Finsky
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« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2005, 01:17:07 AM »

Quote from: mick
Lots also gathered on the wet top to have a drink. I shaded it and will move it tomorrow to a better spot.

Change of seasons and the sun shifting caught me out. Its back into the 80s now and all is back to normal in the hive. I have left a crack under the roof for cooling as tomorrow is gunna be 105 shocked


Sounds good. It seems that you learn to act youself. In what country you live?
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mick
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« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2005, 01:43:55 AM »

Hi Finsky, Australia. Yes it was pretty obvious that they were too hot. I hope nothing inside has collapsed! I better have a look when it cools down in a day or 2.
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Finsky
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« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2005, 04:53:56 AM »

Quote from: mick
Hi Finsky, Australia. Yes it was pretty obvious that they were too hot. I hope nothing inside has collapsed! I better have a look when it cools down in a day or 2.


Yes. Really hot! 100 F = 38 C. In the hive it is 32C.

Bees need  alot water to cool their hive. Shadow is essential.

 You better go to second hand shop and bye a refrigerator and then  cooler element to instead of inner cover.rolleyes
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mick
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« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2006, 11:45:02 PM »

As you can see they have been busy and its time for a new super I think.

I plan to scrape of the excess comb on the frames and place them back in the bottom box. Add a new super on top. Leave all the honey for the time being.

Is what you see her normal? have I been bad? the pics speak for themselves







I poked my finger in that comb on the lid and it was beautiful and smooth and sweet, no bitterness. I didnt examine the frames as I will be cleaning them up in a day or so.

Appreciate your comments on the pics. PS very docile lot and a lot of baby bees I think having a peek outside on the landing today.

PPS Interesting seam of red wax that has sealed the crack between lid and box.
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Jack Parr
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« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2006, 06:23:08 AM »

Viewing your pics I think I see the hive cover in the first pic and if so, it is not how a cover should fit. Your's seems to fit matching the top of the hive body.It should be wider and longer than the frame box so that the cover goes over and drops down around the box. There is too much open space between the top of the frames and undeside of the cover. There seems to be a honey flow going on in your area and the bees will build comb in all free spaces when they need to store the nectar.

You seem to be wanting to use an eight frame setup? If so, you should fill the box with eight  frames and not leave any open spaces, There again the bees will build comb in any open spaces. That is what I think I am seeing in your pics.

Me thinks you are not understanding the theory/facts of BEE SPACE? Also I think you are not understanding the need to provide enough frames in boxes to provide for the bees a place to store their gathered nectar which seems to be what is happening in your hive.  If your box is for eight frames then fill it with that much, and squeeze them against each other. The standard frames are designed to provide the correct bee space that way.  Provide more honey supers above your brood boxes even to the point of providing more than is needed. The bees will usually fill in the bottom ones first

What you seem to be doing is creating problems for yourself. You have to be thinking ahead of the bees because they will do what they have to do in spite of you. You want to try to keep the bees building their comb in the frames and not at random like what is happening in your boxes.
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mick
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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2006, 03:25:45 PM »

Well thats as I expect. Im just a bit late with the other box.

The lid is as supplied by the Bee shop. I cant see how it would fit any other way without covering up the ventilation holes. I will ask some more questions when I get the other box off him.

So apart from having a dodgy cover, too much free space, not understanding the theory/facts of BEE SPACE, not understanding the need to provide enough frames in boxes to provide for the bees a place to store their gathered nectar , how am I going? Cheesy
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thegolfpsycho
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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2006, 04:07:16 PM »

You have possesion of them,  Got em in a box, and don't seem intimidated.   A lttle wild comb isn't the end of the world.  Just fix the problems as you find them and keep learning.  Everyone starts somewhere.
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ian michael davison
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« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2006, 04:19:14 PM »

Hi all

Mick: this is the first time I have read your post.  Re. the move of your bee hive, it may only have been 10 metres but the bees orientate themselves to specific locations and would be following flight paths back from their foraging trips.  They use various land marks (trees or buildings) to locate the hive.  If you've moved it, they will return to the same spot.  The old adage in regards to moving hives used to be "under 3 feet or over 3 miles".  The 3 feet can be achieved every couple of days and you will soon have your hive in its new position.  Alternatively, move the hive 3 miles away and when the bees have reorientated on their new position, you can move the hive back to the original apiary and its new location.  The three miles is a bit over the top and I have moved hives between apiaries a little over a mile apart with no loss of bees.  This really is quite basic and I am surprised no one has mentioned it before.

With the very hot temperatures that you experience, have you considered  or do you use ventilated bottom boards?  These can besimple wooden framing to the external dimensions of your brood chamber.  They can be made simply with pieces of 3/4 inch timber on three sides.  A metal mesh to the bottom of this.  Normal entrance blocks can be used to restrict the entrance when necessary and the bees still have all the ventilation they need.  

Hope this helps

Regards
Ian
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ian michael davison
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« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2006, 04:20:11 PM »

Hi all

Mick: this is the first time I have read your post.  Re. the move of your bee hive, it may only have been 10 metres but the bees orientate themselves to specific locations and would be following flight paths back from their foraging trips.  They use various land marks (trees or buildings) to locate the hive.  If you've moved it, they will return to the same spot.  The old adage in regards to moving hives used to be "under 3 feet or over 3 miles".  The 3 feet can be achieved every couple of days and you will soon have your hive in its new position.  Alternatively, move the hive 3 miles away and when the bees have reorientated on their new position, you can move the hive back to the original apiary and its new location.  The three miles is a bit over the top and I have moved hives between apiaries a little over a mile apart with no loss of bees.  This really is quite basic and I am surprised no one has mentioned it before.

With the very hot temperatures that you experience, have you considered  or do you use ventilated bottom boards?  These can besimple wooden framing to the external dimensions of your brood chamber.  They can be made simply with pieces of 3/4 inch timber on three sides.  A metal mesh to the bottom of this.  Normal entrance blocks can be used to restrict the entrance when necessary and the bees still have all the ventilation they need.  

Hope this helps

Regards
Ian
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mick
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« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2006, 05:05:35 PM »

Thaks for the input everyone. In all they had about 5 moves in the last 6 months or so, thats why I didnt want to fiddle with them too much.

I have read of heaps of old abandoned hives still going so I figured being a little bit late expanding them wouldnt hurt, and Im going to get to keep all the wild comb yummy!

We generally only get a couple of heatwaves a year but Im going to keep an eye on ventilation.
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Yarra_Valley
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« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2006, 07:56:32 PM »

In there Mick,

In regards to the cover being the wrong size, its a migratory cover so its meant to sit in top like that. It is the correct size. They use different covers, from what I have read and seen, in the US. I think the two different designs are being confused here. Migratory covers are the standard in Victoria, as are 8 frame hives.

Pleased to see you have happy bees.


James.
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Careful, my pets can smell your hives. Cool
mick
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« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2006, 10:10:06 PM »

Thanks for that info on the cover. I thought I was going mad as theres no way it could possibly fit over the box!
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Jack Parr
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« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2006, 06:43:14 AM »

Quote from: mick
Thanks for that info on the cover. I thought I was going mad as theres no way it could possibly fit over the box!


Not wishing to beat up on a hive box, but a migratory hive cover is also fitted to sit on top of the box and allowing only 3/8 inch clearence above the top of the frames. At least here in the US that is how covers fit, migratory included.

Cutting a piece of plywood ( 3/4 " thick by the size of the hive box) would do as well.  

The idea is, once again, is to keep bee space to a minimum needed. An inner cover would work as well to keep the bee space and over that you could use your current  cover.

Well at least you got some honey and that's what it's all about. Tongue
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mick
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« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2006, 01:54:39 AM »

Yes jack, honey galore. Im pretty happy being my first time. Im still getting over the fact that its so EASY to do what I did (bad start and all) and have honey in a few months.

Im running around the office encouraging everone to get a hive. One lady has acreage and shes looking into it now. Interestingly they are all interested in how much money you can make lol. One of my other hobbies is growing vegies and I give them all away, always have. So I cant believe how anyones first thoughts would turn to making money from a backyard hive.

Having said that, a 500gm (1.1pound I think) jar of crap sells for $5.00 in the supermarket here.

Not wanting to beat up on the not wanting to beat up on the hive cover, the guy in the shop is the top man in this State on Bees it seems (lucky me poor him) so I gather the style of lid is a local adaptation.

I am guesing that due to the hot summers were most comercial hives are kept, it is a ventilation thing. Maintained hive stacked 4-5 boxes high would benefit from these high lids. Also I am guessing that there will be a fair old gap of 1-2 inches between the top of the lower frames and the bottom of the top frames.

Then again I got no idea!
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Jack Parr
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« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2006, 06:56:07 AM »

for honey storage, supers.  Actually if you have enough honey supers the bees will fill them and probably not build all that wild comb. The queen will also use burr/random comb to lay eggs if it is near the brood nest/area and there is not enough open cell space in frames, available near the brood area. Then if you want to pull frames for any reason you will tear up the random comb and of course destroy the brood. Then the whole thing becomes messy with honey, brood, and pollen. The bees will make do of course but IMO it's much more efficient to have things in order and keep it that way. At least, that's my approach and I keep up with removing unwanted comb. Even then I had to destroy some burr comb with brood and honey built between the frames of two boxes, recently when I did an inspection. The bees are in their prepratory stage for the coming honey flow and the queen is laying  in my area.

I am selling honey at $ 4.00 US, per US pound, 16 ounces. Not a get rich quick scheme for sure.  

Anyway, you'll learn.

Jack
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mick
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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2006, 10:21:39 PM »

Well my pre wired and foundation frames arrived this week. I also made up a new four walls into an 8 frame super. So today is the day. Good weather, gear on, dogs inside, smoker lit and off we go.

Boy they sure welded this lid shut fast. More comb too. I scraped all off the inside of the lid and put it in a bowl. Lost a few bees drowned in honey unfortunately. Came off easily, Id say half was full of honey, the rest ready for honey. The cells are about 3/4 inch deep!
[/img]

I scraped the wild honey off the top of the frames, this came of easily too, lost a few more bees, darn. But I reckon quick is the answer with what Im doing today.

I prised the frames apart and they seem to have filled them all up going on the weight. I didnt examine each one as I will do this in a few days when ythey settle down again. Tell me, how does this frame look? Wow I just noticed there are larvae in some of the cells WOW my first larvae sighting!!


I then placed the new super on top and on with the lid. A few had already climbed on the new frames as I was getting things ready. Lid on job done!!

I didnt keep any honey except for the wild comb seen below. Its yummy, very sweet, nectar smoky taste with some caramel.



I forgot how good real honey tastes. Dog wanted some.

Forget wine judges, I wanna be a honey judge.

So Im now on top of things, no harm done, enjoying myself to bits and very greatful for ALL OF YOUR HELP!!

In the last 6 months I have learned how to trap a hive, how to move bees, how to wire a frame and embed foundation, how to smoke bees and work with them, how fast they work and multiply and a bit about waxmoth. Im happy with my progress.

edit. with the gear off and a nice cool liquid refresher in hand I thought I would go and admire my handywork. There were of course a lot of honey covered bees on the ground as i shook a the lid onto the ground full of honey deluged bees. I was saying to myself gee theres a lot of them crawling around when BINGO one got my bare foot lol. Sill me. Im lucky tho, hardly notive them now. Ive had about 6 stings in 6 months and my reaction is only a lil sting.

Think Ill have my reward inside. rolleyes
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Jack Parr
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« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2006, 07:07:33 AM »

and the bees will continue building wild comb unless you do something about your cover.

However the burr comb building will stop when the necter season ends.
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