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Author Topic: Help! Noob needs advice on foundation wiring.  (Read 2596 times)
Davzbeez
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« on: October 14, 2005, 04:10:34 PM »

I am new to beekeeping and plan to buy equipment this winter and install two hives next spring.  I plan to use medium supers for everything including brood chamber.  My question is this:  If I buy wedge top bars and wired wax foundation, do I have to also embed horizontal wire?  smiley
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bassman1977
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2005, 05:14:22 PM »

Quote
If I buy wedge top bars and wired wax foundation, do I have to also embed horizontal wire?


You don't have to, but I like to (even with duragilt).  I just helps make the foundation to be that much more sturdy.  I wouldn't call it embedding though.  You would essentially be threading the wire through the frame's pre-drilled holes.  Make sure they are nice and tight.

Also, if you get the wired foundation without the hooks, you wouldn't need those wedge style frames.  IMO, the grooved ones are a lot nicer.  You don't have to screw around with an extra piece of wood or worry about poking a hole in your foundation if you are using a small hammer to pound in the tiny nails.

Good luck
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2005, 06:52:07 PM »

I think someone needs a smaller picture.


WOW It worked. Smiley
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manowar422
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2005, 07:42:33 PM »

IMO wires will help the wax sheets stay straight, I'll never
go without wires in my frames again.
I made the big mistake of starting my hive with deep boxes
and the crimp wired foundation in the frames.
The foundation was severely warped and obviously not drawn
properly due to the fact that I only used pins to hold it in.
I removed these deep frames as soon as I could and only put
in medium frames that were wired and had 1" starter strips of
4.9mm foundation at the top of the frame.
I'm much happier with the results and so are my bees, cause
all the frames they have drawn out are straight and uniform.

BTW, please see the forum rules regarding avatars:

Only one image can be displayed at a time,
its width can be no greater than 150 pixels,
the height no greater than 150 pixels,
and the file size no more than 3 KB.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2005, 09:27:55 PM »

What you can get away with depends on the temperatures and the amount of time before the bees work it.  Sometimes you put in foundation now thinking you'll have it in the spring and by spring it's already collapsed and warped.

If you put the foundation in right before you put it on the hive you'll have less problems altogether.  The more wire you put in the less problems.  The better the wire is embedded the less problems.  Or you can do like me and not use any foundation at all.  You'll get natural cell size and no warping or callapsing.  Smiley

www.bushfarms.com
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Michael Bush
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Davzbeez
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2005, 03:24:34 AM »

OK,  Thanks for all the help/replies.  Is there a guide or photo gallery for how to wire frames?
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Finsky
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2005, 06:01:31 AM »




* Make a  rack  from where you can pull the wire from.

* Hit two  1/2 ich nails into frame one near wire starting point and another near ending point.

 * Pass the wire through the frame holes.
 
* Then turn wire around it a couple of times
* hit with hammer on the nail.

* Pull from the free head of wire and with another hand tighten the wire and whole time pull with another hand.

* When wire sings, turn wire around another nail and hit on with hammer.

* Then put foundation into top bar grove.
* Foundation rests on the wires.

* Between lower bar and foundation it must be 10 millimeter distance. Otherwise foundation will curve when it enlarge in warm hive.

* Give  elctronic circuit through the wire with A or B

A) alternative : put 1000 W resistance inside circuit. Something heating appliance etc.

B) use car akku loader and give cirguit from conducting wires.
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imabkpr
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2005, 11:57:49 AM »

Quote from: Davzbeez
I am new to beekeeping and plan to buy equipment this winter and install two hives next spring.  I plan to use medium supers for everything including brood chamber.  My question is this:  If I buy wedge top bars and wired wax foundation, do I have to also embed horizontal wire?  smiley
                                                                                                               Why not use  [wooden ] split top, top bars and plastic foundation?  Get away from all that time consuming labor.  Do you think that  6 5/8 suppers will give you enough room for a cluster large enough to make it through the winter?
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Davzbeez
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2005, 01:39:22 PM »

Finsky thanks, I'll try it.  IMABKPR, I want to try wax first and see what happens.  Also, I live in TN where the winters are not so severe.  I want to standardise all my equipment.   So I am going to try 3 med supers for my hive body instead of 2 deeps.
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Finsky
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2005, 02:28:43 PM »

Quote from: Davzbeez
 So I am going to try 3 med supers for my hive body instead of 2 deeps.


It is all the same what you use. If everything goes well you shall wire frames for 5 deeps or 7 medium per hive.  Both will be as good.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2005, 08:03:09 AM »

>Why not use [wooden ] split top, top bars and plastic foundation? Get away from all that time consuming labor.

Or no foundation at all.  Smiley

> Do you think that 6 5/8 suppers will give you enough room for a cluster large enough to make it through the winter?

Three of them will. Smiley
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Finsky
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2005, 10:49:04 AM »

Quote from: Davzbeez
I am new to beekeeping and plan to buy equipment this winter and install two hives next spring.  


When we have a beginner, it is not right to offer that kind of tricks which are difficult even to professionals.  There is "beginners kit" and " anvanced tool box" and "only for professionals".

What a mesh when a beginner starts to nurse bees in top bar hive with swarming bee race!

We talk about "idiot sure system". That they must be for beginners.


Hives from Korea

http://www.ares.gangwon.kr/gw5/photo/p11/p11.htm
.
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Davzbeez
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2005, 01:39:34 PM »

Thanks for the advice.  Michael, I have made up my mind on using mediums for all so I have interchangeability.  As you and others suggest plastic, I may have to reconsider.  I had planned to try "instant" regression using 4.9 wax wired into wedge top frames.  Several questions come to mind:

1. If I use plastic coated with wax, will the bees accept it as readily as wax?
2. Is wax coated plastic available in 4.9?
3. Can I cut 2 wax coated plastic sheets in half to form the middle frame for "housman?" positioning?  If so, should I wire that one in? Or should I buy a small supply of wax sheets just to make middle frames from?
4. Are split top frames the same as wedge top frames?  If not, who supplies split top frames?

Again, Thanks to all of you for offering advice!
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Dale
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2005, 07:35:34 PM »

I bought 4.9 from brushy mountain, and it was plain beeswax.  If you put that into a deep frame, it will sag.  I think it may sag in a medium too. I used 4 embedded wires to keep it from sagging.  Next year, I'm going to do something different with the small cell, to save some time.  Instead of wiring, I'm going to use strips of #8 screen, fold them, and pinch them into the wax on the sides of the foundation.  I tested it late this year, but do not know how it would do in the summer, but it should be completely drawn out by then.  MB has said about using 11 frames, and that should solve my comb drawing dilemas.  

I used pierco this past year, and the bees drew it out very nicely, but mite counts were alot higher than on small cell.  And that was with all of the drone comb on the small cell.  Still have mites, but not as many.
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Dale Richards
Dal-Col Apiaries
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