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Author Topic: Cell size  (Read 1582 times)
RSWOODBEE
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« on: October 17, 2012, 06:59:53 PM »

Standard, small cell What are mesurements? mm and deciemal. Bee acceptance with either, can you mix them?
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funbee1
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 07:43:09 PM »

I think it's like 4.8mm. I'm thinking of switching to small cell in the Spring to try and keep the mites down. It was my first Spring/Summer with bees and I had tons of mites, over 100 drop on 24hr. sticky board. I definitely need a plan to deal with mites next year, doubt my bees will make to Spring.
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funbee1
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 09:06:56 PM »

Small cell is 4.9mm compared to large cell at 5.4mm
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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 09:35:00 PM »

save your money.  the only real studies done on small cell shows it does not keep mites down.  http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/personnel/documents/Berry1109.pdf

if you are having a problem with mites and what you are doing is not working, treat them.  the idea of all natural is great, but if your bees don't have the genetics for it, you will lose them.  you wouldn't leave fleas on your dog, or not worm your horse.

i prefer Apiguard.  as treatments go, this is one of the most natural.  some people like OA.  others use powdered sugar, although the studies on that don't prove it to be very effective.

when you chose to keep a thing, you choose to manage it.  while the "natural" method is appealing to all of us, it is no good if your bees die.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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BlueBee
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 09:58:07 PM »

I use a mixture of Mann Lake all plastic PF frames and Pierco plastic foundation in wood frames.  The PF frames are 4.9mm which people call “small cell”.  The Piecro plastic foundation is 5.3mm (I believe) which I guess is “standard”.  I mix and match, but my bees do tend to like the Piecro better.  It might be because big bees aren’t real great at switching over to 4.9mm frames; I don’t know.  But to answer the OP question; YES you can mix them and the bees will use all of them.   

I have some level of mites in most of my hives and nucs, but they haven’t taken over a hive yet.
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Finski
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2012, 12:54:07 AM »

.
In Siberia, from where Russian Bee comes from, the official foundation size is 5,6 mm
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2012, 02:49:03 PM »

Chart of cell sizes:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#cellsizes

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Michael Bush
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organicfarmer
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2012, 03:54:57 PM »

To pick up on Kathy's comments...
Studies also show that whether you treat or not, colony loss is not tremendously different.
There are even studies that show that mites have so well adapted to the chemicals (we have generated super-parasites), they actually do better on the chemicals. A little like feeding on them to get their "super-power"!
There are studies that say this, studies that say that, and studies that say the opposite.
There are people who believe in small cell as solution; there are people who believe small cell does not work. Both are entrenched in their belief. You have to make your own mind and believe, i guess!!! But that is outside of studies and science, it's a little bit like religion. evil
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2012, 05:53:49 PM »

should probably have added in there than i don't usually treat.  i have been fortunate to cultivate some really nice survivor types.  this year, i picked up 3 swarms that were not doing well and were lousy with mites.  these swarms probably came out of pollination hives in the area.  i treated them and they seem to be doing well now.  we'll see how they do over winter.

just wanted you to know that i am not pushing treatment...or not.   Smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Michael Bush
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2012, 03:22:08 PM »

>should probably have added in there than i don't usually treat.

You should also probably have added that you are on natural comb...
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Michael Bush
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duck
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2012, 04:48:38 PM »

while the "natural" method is appealing to all of us, it is no good if your bees die.

if they are killed, they did you a favor.  Dont keep bees that wont survive on their own.
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ScooterTrash
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2012, 12:58:32 AM »

1st year here; 8 colonies now, picked up two abandoned hives at a sawmill that I trade with, 6 hives with narrow frames with natural comb. No treatments at this point, mite count(s) 40 or < in each w/samplings each 14 days. Will see how they over winter; noting it sometimrs takes a couple seasons for the varroa to work its deed. Building 3000 frames now to keep me occupied while seeking employment. Will go with 8frame medium boxes this go around w/oil trays for SHB management. Now to find the bees for thes hives.

Genetics as in the workers being able to determine if mite(s) are in a given cell and aborting that cell's content?
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Finski
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2012, 09:15:45 AM »



if they are killed, they did you a favor.  Dont keep bees that wont survive on their own.

ohoh hoh!

I keep, what ever duck says.

Don't keep wife who cannot pay herself.
- just idea
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David McLeod
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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2012, 09:21:01 AM »

Just for the record I use a mix of both foundation and foundationless. I have not done the tests for myself but basically I will not treat and like duck said if they die I didn't want them anyhow. I don't know if the small cell, the only foundation I use, makes a difference or not and frankly don't care. I do know that "natural" colonies I pull out of walls and trees do tend to have smaller cell sizes in the core of the brood nest. Again I can not speak to the significance of that. Now does that mean all my bees are small cell bees, I doubt it as my bees will do as they will with the foundation. I've seen some of my colonies pull out small cell foundation to full frames of huge drone comb (really more like large storage cells) and every thing in between with very few actual "perfect" small cell frames. I figure that as long as the core of the deep is pulled out to a consistant size across the center frames that make up the bulk of the brood then they can do as they please with the rest of it. If I find excessive drone or other unacceptable comb then I can always slice and dice but I try not to fight my bees these days.
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kathyp
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2012, 05:05:29 PM »

duck, that might be an end goal for many, but poor advice for the beginner.  the person who buys equipment, takes time to learn about beekeeping, then spends 80 dollars or so per package, ought not to be told that he should let them die.

we'd not have many beekeepers if we encouraged such thinking.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
jredburn
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2012, 05:36:34 PM »

Locate a Grapefruit tree and collect a paper bag full of the leaves,  dead and/or dry.   Mix them half and half with Pine needles and stuff in a smoker.  Smoke the hive hard for a minute and a half.  Repeat every other day for five treatments. 
regards,
Joe
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sterling
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« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2012, 10:18:01 AM »

Locate a Grapefruit tree and collect a paper bag full of the leaves,  dead and/or dry.   Mix them half and half with Pine needles and stuff in a smoker.  Smoke the hive hard for a minute and a half.  Repeat every other day for five treatments. 
regards,
Joe

And this does what??
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