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Author Topic: First cut out today, and questions...Sorry...tried the search...  (Read 1321 times)
Bees In Miami
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« on: October 14, 2012, 10:09:49 PM »

I did my first cut out today, thanks to encouragement from all of you and videos from JP and hardwood, I had the confidence to proceed.  I tried to search for many of these answers, and got a few, but could really use some verification.  I am way too spent to search further, but really want to save this colony....  Please forgive the dumb questions...I really have tried, but don't think the bees have much time to spare...  THANKS in advance!!!

We cut into the shed floor, to find no capped brood...dark comb, and a bit of honey....A queen cell and a couple queen cups.  This colony split 3 times two weeks ago.  The feral hive we cut out today was absolutely infested with hive beetles...I squished every one I could when I saw them!   No queen to be found, but honestly, this did not appear to be a 'healthy, strong' hive.  Could the bees have split because they were getting overrun?  Or did they get overrun because too many split??

VERY little honey to be found...and the few combs of honey were just about dry, and chewed up.  (I assume from the hive beetles?) 

They are now in a hive box, with as much (infested) comb I could salvage.  I placed a beetle buster in there.  Again, there was no brood. 

How should I proceed to save the colony?  I have two strong colonies, but hate to jeopardize them to save a colony that may have been ill fated....Or am I wrong?

Also, my jacket is absolutely COVERED with poop!!  I am assuming they have Nosema...they have 2:1 sugar syrup available to them now with a front entrance feeder.  Will this be enough?

Truly, sorry for all the rookie/new bee questions...this was a new event for me, and a learning experience.  Anybody willing to help, I will truly be grateful!!!  Thanks in advance!!!  This forum is the bees knees...!! 

PS...JP...If you read this, thanks for keeping me up until sun rise watching your videos!!!  LOL!!!  You're the Bee Master in MY book!  Thanks for taking the time to make the videos...I learned a TON!!!  Thanks again!   
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iddee
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2012, 10:26:30 PM »

If you want the bees to live, shake them out on the ground in your apiary and let them take up with your hives.

Myself, I would never allow them into my apiary. They ARE diseased with nosema and possibly foulbrood or other maladies, if you don't know what to look for. Then they were likely left over bees from and abscond and robber bees caught before they returned home. They most likely are not a colony, as in the sense of family. You are only asking for trouble keeping them around your healthy hives.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Bees In Miami
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2012, 11:33:32 PM »

iddee: Thanks!  So should I just open the boxes and shake them at the ground around my hives?  Survival of the fittest so to speak?  I could tell it wasn't a healthy hive.....I still wanted to save it though.  I have a mentality that isn't always good...my husband always says "you can't save them all".  I don't want to spread disease, but at the same time, all my swarms came from the same colony we opened today, and they are doing GREAT!  (3 swarms just TWO WEEKS AGO!)  I was STUNNED to see how weak the "mother" hive was....Truly, I am at a loss.  Thanks again for your input.  

Added:  iddee:  Should I just burn the comb, and release the bees?  I have put them into NEW hives (just finished building and painting the hives and supers!)  ..I don't want to lose equipment....But again, the colony put out stong swarms (just two weeks ago)...which are doing great!  Was it just their location that made it go so bad?  They were in a nasty area under our shed.  

Really, I am pretty desperate as to what to do...HELP!!!  Thanks to ALL!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 04:58:21 AM by Bees In Miami » Logged
iddee
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2012, 09:02:57 AM »

If your bees are from the same colony, I would do a newspaper combine. Just set them on top your other weakest hive, with a single sheet of newspaper between the boxes. They will slowly remove the paper as they adjust to being together.

No, I wouldn't burn anything.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
Bees In Miami
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2012, 08:19:41 PM »

Iddee:  Thanks for your reply.  I spoke with my State inspector today who didn't seem too concerned about the heath of the girls we took out yesterday considering the 3 swarms a couple weeks ago, other than lacking food causing the Nosema.  He suggested the combine also, so that will take place tomorrow.  The cut out hive is spending their second night with a front feeder, so hopefully that will help them some.  I am still trying to talk myself out of putting a frame of uncapped and capped brood in the cut out hive from one of my stong hives, but I guess I will try the combine, and say some prayers.  Thanks again for the input! 
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iddee
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 09:15:34 PM »

With a front feeder this time of year, the strong hives will most likely rob it out and kill them. I would get some kind of top feeder on them or quit feeding completely. If robbing starts, get a screen on them very quickly.


http://www.beekeepingforums.com/threads/5223-Robber-screen-moving-screen
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
Bees In Miami
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 10:35:59 PM »

Thanks iddee...We have a strong flow now of brazilian pepper...I haven't seen any signs of robbing from the other hives.  I will start my combine with the newspaper tomorrow.  I wanted the cut out hive fed so they wont try to rob the hive I introduce them to.  At least that's what made sense in my "I know enough about bees to fit in a thimble" mentality.   Wink  Thanks again.  I look forward to the day I can actually contibute to this forum, and not just be a leach!!  Thanks for your time! 
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iddee
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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2012, 10:47:13 PM »

This forum would be nothing if it didn't have questions to be answered. You just ask away and don't worry about a thing. Your day will come before you realize it.

Feeding is fine, but don't use a front feeder during a dearth.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2012, 11:02:49 PM »

How many bees are we talking here on your removal? A few pounds or so? General rule is a smaller queenright hive will allow a larger queenless hive to combine with it. When in doubt do a newspaper combine.


...JP
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Bees In Miami
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 12:30:25 AM »

Thanks JP...There were definately a few thousand bees (maybe 6 frames), but definately queenless.  NOOO brood, AT all.  My State inspector thinks they prepped too hard for the splits, and too much brood hatched at once, and left the remaining colony too weak.  Does this make sense to you?  He advised just to combine,...I am worried about the Nosema (assuming it is Nosema...they pooped all over my jacket).  I got popped in the face 4 times yesterday trying to set up a better area for the combine, so after two shots at the doc in my butt cheeks, I didn;t do the combine today.  I look forward to any an all input you have!!!  And I was serious, I spent an entire night until the rooster was crowing watching your videos!  THANK YOU SOOOO much for those!!!   I have ten frames of CRAP essentially, that I got from the cut out...NO brood.  Nectar and a bit of pollen....Dare I combine? Remove the Junk, and dump the bees?  I don't want to see them all die, but don't want to jeopardise otherwise heathy colonies.  Thanks SO much for any an all input!   And thank you, SERIOUSLY, for your videos!  You are me Beek Hero!!   Kiss
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JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 09:24:46 AM »

I don't know your area but I know certain parts of Florida have shb out the yin yang. Hardwood can tall you his woes about dealing with them in his daily workings. He's in Deltona.

I did a cut out this season in Tylertown, Ms that was infested with shbs. The hive had good numbers and a laying queen but the shb load was tremendous. I treated them as if a big swarm and put them on new equipment. Wasn't worth the risk.

Who knows for sure what exactly occurred with your cut out colony. We know they swarmed multiple times and you removed them when their numbers were run down & you say you don't have a queen. This is a perfect invitation for shb to take over.

As iddee mentioned there is no colony to save at this point. Your best option is to combine them or shake them out and let the chips fall where they will.

Bobby McFerrin - Don't Worry Be Happy



...JP  Wink
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
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My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Bees In Miami
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 06:50:53 PM »

Thanks for the input iddee and JP!  Greatly appreciated!  Another stupid question...I will only be relocating the feral colony about 40 feet from their original spot for the combine...should I plan to do that after dark so they 'wake up' and depart from the new hive?  I will be making the move tomorrow, and will do my best to block their original entrance under the shed at the same time.  Thanks again!   Sorry for being a dummy...   embarassed
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iddee
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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2012, 08:29:17 PM »

They should find the hive within 3 days. There may be a bit of confusion until then, but they will sort it out.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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