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Author Topic: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?  (Read 6274 times)

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2012, 07:39:15 AM »
TBH just for fun  :roll:

Top bar hives are great for the developing worlds to help people enable themselves and lift them out of poverty and make life better for families  :-D

What about your City Hives on the roof of theatre in Böna/Bean Village. 320 inhabitants.

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Yeah Edward...what about it?

Answer the question so I can understand perhaps one point that Finski has tried to make. Up till now I am just another ignorant and clueless American.  ;)

Does anyone know what is being said? Homo-sapiens, throwing gloves away, running through the willow bush, hives on top of a theatre, the relevancy of 320 inhabitants.....I am clueless.
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Offline Finski

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2012, 10:30:13 AM »
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City of Bönan Sweden where Edward lives

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Offline Finski

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2012, 10:35:26 AM »

I am clueless.

Chips happen even in better families

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Offline edward

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2012, 03:31:36 PM »
throwing gloves away, running through the willow bush?

When all else fails and you can no longer see through your beekeeping veil RUN like  :evil:

The bees hopefully wont chase you through dens bushes and shrubbery  :thunder:

mvh edward  :-P

Looking for links to the rest, have to watch the Simpson's first  :roll: :-D

Offline Finski

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2012, 04:05:43 PM »
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German black had special feature. They hit under water line. Italian and Carniolans do not do that.
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Offline Nature Coast Beek

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2012, 04:44:27 PM »
OP

Individual preferences will probably mean the difference and make your decision easier. I would caution you on thinking purely from an upfront economic standpoint solely. Time is money and one design might give you early wallet savings, but be a bit longer in another area such as learning curve and maintenance time.

For me, I chose Langstroth type hive as the way to go after researching for a good 5 or so months. I researched all manners of hives and totally ruled out the Warre design. I do think that design matters for the BEEKEEPER. I wanted a portable and swap-able system, the Lang hive and frame design fits that bill. With a Lang I could just purchase 5 frame nucs and transfer the equipment to a larger box without fuss. Pretty much plug-n-play. Also with a Lang, for me the frame swapping between hives seemed to be much easier with time savings in the long run. To me, I thought the Lang design offered itself to easier packing and moving (portability) than TBH. Lastly, for my purposes, I think the Lang frame design will be easier in the long run for honey extracting and frame durability and swapping.

Now, with all that being said, I am totally open to TBH design and will probably keep a couple in due time and space. Do I think one is better than the other? For my purposes, needs and wants I certainly do think one is better than the other, but that was for me to figure out and decide. Determine your needs, wants and desires and the hive design that best suits them will be easier to find.

Just my .02

Offline buzzbee

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2012, 06:46:00 PM »
I think Finski was referring to the temperament of the German black bees when talking about throwing everything and running through the thick willows to escape.Nasty bees in a large open top hive would probably make for some excitement!!! :-D

Offline Finski

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2012, 02:51:16 AM »
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What is the best in beekeeping is moving hives to good pastiures. You may get 3-5 fold yields from different places.
Top bar frames do not stand moving.

When I started my beekeeping I moved stuff with bicycle  10 miles to  out pastures. I gto yield in my home yard only in June.
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Offline BjornBee

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2012, 07:45:04 AM »
Ok, so we are back to living 50 years ago.

First German black bees and swarm management of 50 years ago, and now comments of using a bike to move hives.

So let's just skip the fact that 98% or better of all beekeepers are hobbyists and probably keep keep bees for the pure enjoyment, and are not driven to move hives multiple times. Skip over the fact that most have cars and or trucks. Let's forget most keep bees on their own property for convenience.

So we can better promote Langs, and justify with reasons NOT to get a TBH, let's just assume everyone lives as they did 50 years ago.

But if we did go back then.... Most did not have credit cards. So buying everything on credit was not possible. Do you think many would of been frugal and had the ability to build a TBH 50 years ago?

Go back 50 years. Did everyone have an extractor? Seems to me that reasoning may be that most would of benefitted from crush and strain. Club extractors and many more beekeepers with their own extractors, honey houses, and the ambition to sell honey at market, was probaby much lower 50 years ago.

Seems to me that there are many reasons, if we are still living 50 years ago, that TBH might seem a worthy alternative. And using experiences from 50 years ago, mentions of black bees, how much easier it is to move Langs on a bike, and beekeepers moving hives to different pastures (like how many do that?), are real stretches in the promotion of Langs over TBH.

As I said earlier, to me I could care less about one or the other. I just find it amusing how each side complains about each others promotion and denigration of the other, while doing nothing but fluffing their own opinions to what they promote.

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Offline edward

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2012, 10:31:12 AM »
TBH or Langstroth ? You guys are lucky

Here in Sweden we have a real mess with 10 different frame sizes  :(

4 different lengths of frames make them non interchangeable  :(

I big mess!
I do my part by burning the least popular sizes and recommend the langstroth format to all beeginners, but its a free choice for them to make, odd sizes have a low worth on the second hand market.

mvh edward  :-P

Offline kingbee

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2012, 02:08:59 PM »
... I am a cheap bastard by nature so the less money I have to shell out on a hobby the better...

Why didn't you tell us that to begin with.  In that case this is the hive for you.
And remember, there are few people on the face of the Earth who must conserve money more than an Ethiopian.
http://www.masterfile.com/stock-photography/image/700-01993241/Beehives-in-Tree-Rift-Valley-Ethiopia

These hives are woven from straw or tree branches, like the skep hives in this country or Europe were 150+ years ago.  I am unsure about this, but I would not bet against them having the cracks dobbed up or filled in with good old fashion organic cow poop.  The straw European skep hives always was covered in a thick layer of fresh cow dung.
Heathland Beekeeping - 2 - Preparations for the Swarming Period in a Heather Skep Apiary

At between minute 4 and 5 in the above video is a good up close of of a skep hive and its covering.  Oh yes I almost forgot, the apiary owner uses what looks to be the same pocket knife in a later video to harvest or cut up, his cut comb honey.

Do remember that with a skep or an African Top Bar WOVEN or basket hive it is often (almost always) necessary to kill the colony before each harvest, a TBH or a KTBH is a compromise between a true skep hive and a Lang hive to avoid killing the colony.

Offline edward

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2012, 02:29:27 PM »
Tbh and straw skeps  :roll: Seems like some beekeeper like to turn the clock backwards  :roll:

Makes me wonder if the drive there  :brian: T Ford  :brian: beetween bee yards  :roll:  :brian:  :lau:

Offline Finski

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2012, 03:37:21 PM »
[  The straw European skep hives always was covered in a thick layer of fresh cow dung.


hehe hehe heh.  Must be good honey.

Actually original beehives were wood too and they were lifted to trees that bears not eate them

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Offline Finski

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2012, 03:41:32 PM »
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Modern

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2012, 04:27:55 PM »
Bees are still bees whatever box they are in...
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline kingbee

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2012, 05:50:44 PM »
Bees are still bees whatever box they are in...

So very very true.  The box used is only for the convince of the bees' keeper, not for the health and happiness of the bees.  There is not some magic hive design that bees never die in or abscon from.  They are or will become your bees.  Bees are bees and at least the bee colony are living creatures, (I am not so sure about each individual bee) and death is a condition imposed by life on all living things.  Bees are fascinating creatures, so hive them up in what ever you wish, after a few years you will see that many of the books you so eagerly read are hokum because bees do what bees want to do, not what you or I wish or want them to do.  Listen to Michael  He is telling you the truth.

May all your beekeeping problems be as small as this one and good luck.

Offline Finski

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Re: Top Bar or Lang for a newbie?
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2012, 10:12:40 PM »
Bees are still bees whatever box they are in...

So very very true.  The box used is only for the convince of the bees' keeper, not for the health and happiness of the bees.  There is not some magic hive design that bees never die in or abscon from.  They are or will become your bees.  Bees are bees and at least the bee colony are living creatures, (I am not so sure about each individual bee) and death is a condition imposed by life on all living things.  Bees are fascinating creatures, so hive them up in what ever you wish, after a few years you will see that many of the books you so eagerly read are hokum because bees do what bees want to do, not what you or I wish or want them to do.  Listen to Michael  He is telling you the truth.

May all your beekeeping problems be as small as this one and good luck.


Now, stop drinking...
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anything