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Author Topic: voter ID  (Read 7474 times)
BlueBee
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« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2012, 10:55:12 PM »

I don’t think anybody here is suggesting we allow illegal aliens to vote; I’m not.  As far as I can see, the State of Michigan has done due diligence to make sure only US Citizens vote in this State.  Doing more in Michigan seems like a waste of time and money to me.  What goes on in Bama and PA, I can’t say; they may not be as evolved as Michigan?

Like Bluegrass, I’m a realist and weigh the benefits vs risks.  Unless you start taking finger prints at the voting booths and ballots, you’re not going to prevent all fraud.  Even a finger printing system could be frauded if somebody really wanted to defeat it.  How many billions more $$$$ do our right wing beeks want to pile onto their grand kids to ensure 100% of the voters are legal?  Isn’t 99% good enough?  

Simply adding another question on the ballot for the voter to check is completely worthless in preventing fraud.  Do you really think an illegal would actually check the box saying they were illegal and voting?  Come on beeks, get real!  Why do the right wingers get so hung up on the trivial problems when we’re 16 trillion in debt and counting?  

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kingbee
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« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2012, 11:28:43 PM »

... reminds me of the song   That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Yes and the Dread Scott decision was a 7-2 or I forget now, maybe it was a unanimous 9-0 decision, and according to Bluegrass's tortured logic that makes slavery OK.

Yep, I still got it, Dread Scott was a 7-2 decision so the Pennsylvania court is on track to becoming a racist court that does the bidding of its political masters.  

The Court issued this ruling instead of ordering the State DoT to speedily issue the free photo ID cards provided for by the voter ID bill.  Instead of obeying the law, the Penn DoT chose to adopt their own set of rules while dragging their feet on voter IDs. The idea from the beginning was to allow massive voting irregularities by torpedoing the voter ID law.  

Are you SHOCKED?  I am not, I saw the same kind of thing under the old Jim Crow laws when I was growing up.  No one is free unless all elections are fair and equal.  If you want to see what unfair representation leads to, look no farther than the blood shed in Syria were 11% of the population holds power over the 80 & 9%.
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kingbee
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« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2012, 11:38:45 PM »

...
Simply adding another question on the ballot for the voter to check is completely worthless in

preventing fraud.  

As always my friend BlueBee was asleep at the keyboard.
There was no suggestion that a question should be added to the ballot asking the voter if he or she or it was a citizen of these United States.  The suggested question was on the voter registration form.  A hardly pointless, and a highly proper question if ever there was one.  Doesn't the union know or ask if your dues are current before they call you to work at a union shop?
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BlueBee
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« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2012, 11:44:35 PM »

Zzzzzzz....zzzzzzz.......zzzzzz  yawn.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2012, 11:38:07 AM »

... reminds me of the song   That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Yes and the Dread Scott decision was a 7-2 or I forget now, maybe it was a unanimous 9-0 decision, and according to Bluegrass's tortured logic that makes slavery OK.

With the Constitution at that time even a court today would vote the way they did then... They had to Amend the Constitution to make Dred Scott ruling unconstitutional...

Lets look at this from a different angle... one that is easier for you to understand.
The Constitution was ratified in 1789 without a provision for the Right to keep and Bear Arms. That Amendment was added in 1791. Now if the courts had ruled between 1789 and 1791 on a disarmament case, and ruled that the Government had the right to disarm it's citizens, But then Congress changes the Constitution making the original ruling Unconstitutional, was the original ruling wrong to begin with? 

That is the ludicrousness you are pushing here... 
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kathyp
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« Reply #65 on: October 10, 2012, 11:46:06 AM »

Quote
They had to Amend the Constitution to make Dred Scott ruling

no, they had to amend the constitution to enshrine intent.  there are two ways that the courts should, and always should have, made rulings.  one is on the actual written constitution, and where that might be murky, intent.  even then, they could not have read the writings of the founders and not known that the intent of the constitution was to limit federal powers and leave most things to the states. 

so, amendments or not, this was a bogus ruling by one of the first activist courts.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bluegrass
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« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2012, 12:23:27 PM »

NO! (not sure how that fathers the argument, but I will use it too).

The Fourteenth Amendment provides that anyone born or naturalized in the United States is a citizen of the nation and of his or her state. In Dred Scott, the Supreme Court held that a slave was property, not a citizen, and thus had no rights under the Constitution.

From the Courts Decision.

Quote
The framers of the Constitution believed that blacks "had no rights which the white man was bound to respect; and that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit. He was bought and sold and treated as an ordinary article of merchandise and traffic, whenever profit could be made by it."

Which was true... So the courts decision was based on the Practice of framers like Jefferson who owned slaves. There for you could not be sued by your own property.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2012, 05:21:53 PM »

Congress is not alone in amending the Constitution.They just write the proposed Constitutional Amendment. The states have a say. That is why an amendment must be sent to the states for a ratification by the majority of the states. Thus limiting the power of the Fed to do it on their own. The framers did this by intention,not by accident. The very intention of the Constitution was to limit the powers of the Fed from becoming a tyrannical bunch.
Wiping behinds with the Constitution was never intended as the current administration sees fit to do.
Our forefathers would roll in their grave if they would see all the agencies given power to rule the people. I am sure they would see it as a Constitutional crisis as many now do.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2012, 06:56:47 PM »

The 14th wasn't ratified by all the States Wink NJ and OH Rescinded ratification until 2003, Yup just 9 years ago.. marshal law was declared in several southern states and the state governments replaced in order to get ratification...
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« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2012, 07:10:19 PM »

The proposal has to be approved by two thirds of the House of Representatives and two thirds of the Senate. At that point it must be approved by three fourths of state legislatures. Not all states need approve.
Once again limiting powers of the federal government to the powers granted to it by the states and the people.

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bluegrass
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« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2012, 07:12:25 PM »

My point was that I do not believe they had the majority, hence the marshal law and replacement of State Governments.
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« Reply #71 on: October 10, 2012, 07:43:19 PM »

And who was it that replaced the state governments? Voters. 
Remember the Civil War? It was a war of states rights. The Constitution actually was trampled although the Union was "preserved". And the fed has been overly powerful ever since.
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AllenF
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« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2012, 07:47:37 PM »

And this coming from someone up North?   That is what we hear everyday down here in the south.   
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buzzbee
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« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2012, 07:51:06 PM »

Yes Allen,born and breed in the North but I am capable of understanding history. Believe it or not we were actually taught this in late grade school and junior high. That was before the political correctness crowd started pressing their agendas. It was when we were taught to be proud to be a citizen of the USA,not a victim or apologist.
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kingbee
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« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2012, 08:59:58 PM »

NO! (not sure how that fathers the argument, but I will use it too).

The Fourteenth Amendment provides that anyone born or naturalized in the United States is a citizen of the nation and of his or her state...


The 14th Amendment was supposed to guarantee equal protection under the law to all Americans.  Unfortunately in some states like Pennsylvania this guarantee has now becoming an obvious lie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_Militia_in_Reconstruction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Shirts_(Southern_United_States)

Lets not forget that the 14th amendment (Enacted 5 years after the fact) enabled the Federal government to deny many Southerns the right to vote.  This action was a direct contradiction to and violated both Grant's and Sherman's terms of surrender that they dictated to Lee and Johnson.

The top link sets out the alternative men will adopt if denied fair and open elections, please note that both of these armed groups were Republican militias fighting over who stole the most votes.  While the Republican Militias were fighting and killing each other, the Democrat Militias were literally night riding the Republican Militias into the ground.

The activities in the second link is what you encourage by opposing or discouraging free and fair elections.  The goings on perpetrated by the likes of the KKK, White League, and Red Shirt Militia, not to mention the Jay Hawkers and Red Legs Militias is what you encourage.  

If you are willing to take the chance that Connecticut will follow Syria's or perhaps Yugoslavia's example on the best way to address past and present grievances, please, please, please feel free to do so.  In fact don't let me stand in your self-destructive way, by all means knock yourself out!

Come to think of it the actions of the dudes at the polling place in Philly during the 2008 election, is right out of the Red Shirt Militia's voter intimidation play book.
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kingbee
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« Reply #75 on: October 11, 2012, 12:42:01 AM »

... marshal law was declared in several southern states and the state governments replaced in order to get ratification...

This is getting off topic but I will post on it to play along.

Not exactly so.  The Reconstruction Act of 1867 abolished civilian governments in the former Confiderate States and to be readmitted to the Union that Lincoln said that they had never left they had to radiffy Amendments 13, 14, and 15 as a condition of readmidance.. 

Political Correctness is our greatest danger.  This is so because Political Correctness is blind to the duel threat posed by Siera Law and La Raza.  Both of these threats are much more serious to the future or long term survival of America than slavery ever was. 

By 1850 the economic dislocation posed by the Industrial Revolution coupled with a fast growing world population , numbered slavery's days.  However slavery and its economic impact was the core issue that deepened geographic as well as economic differences and these deeping rifts led to a national split.  However if slavery ever stages a come back in North America it will be because of something like sustainable, organic, local-vor agriculture and its need for gobs and gobs of cheap hand labor at the drop of a hat.

In 1860 the Democrat Party was the party of free trade, and the Republican Party was the party of high tariffs.  The South wanted to trade freely with the world, exporting its raw materials like cotton, corn, timber, and tobacco, (before the Civil war more corn was exported from Charlston, South Carolina than from anyother American port) and using the profits of this trade to buy cheaper and better quality goods than were generally available from the Northern factories of the day. 

The American merchant marine infact has never overcome the tripple hits of ships lost to Confederate raiders, the flight of US vessels to forigen flags because of high insurance rates caused by these raiders, and the decreased international trade to American ports caused by higher tariffs in the aftermath of a Northern victory.

This was basally the dynamic that caused George Washington and most of the founders to turn their backs on England.  The Brittish were taking her North American colonial consumers for granted, by forcing ever lower prices on us for colonial products inforced by banning world trade with the colonies, while charging us ever higher prices for ever shoddier English goods. 

GM, Chrysler, as well as Rambler, Packard, Nash, Willis, and a host of other brands and manufactures met their end the same way.  That way is the way of the market, and among other things the market led to China loosing her tea monoply while the Brittish fretted over the ongoing slave trade in Cuba, Egypt, Nigeria, The Soudan, and Kenya on the one hand while with their other left hand the English profited greatly from the trade in Indian (Afghan Pakistan) opium for Chinese tea. The English even fought several wars with China to get or keep their street corner location to better smuggle Afghan opium into China.  Meanwhile the English fought two disastrous (Disastrous at least for the English) wars to safeguard their supply of Afghan opium.

Another example is Brittan using armed force into the 1940s to force India to pay dearly for  English salt and cloth even though India is situated between two great oceans chocked full of salt and historically India was both a grower of cotton as well as a center of spinning and textile weaving. How many Indian (Hindu) fabrics can you name?

The Northern Republicans wanted more internal trade and high taxes on imports to both ensure profits for factory owners as well as to protect factory workers jobs.  Then like now a rising economy floated all boats.   Marx more than once said that the only thing the American Worker wanted was to get rich, if not to actually become a Capitalist himself.  Even though Marx and Engels Together wrote more than 300 articles for Republican Newspapers, neither one was optimistic about Socialism taking root in America.

Today every time someone mentions "Cheep Chinese" goods or "adulterated imported honey" or "buy American," I bet you can scratch that person and you will most likely find a Classical Republican under the surfice.  If on the other hand you are driving an imported  car (especially a hybrid or up scale brand like Mercedes, SAAB, BMW, Jag, Lexus, etc) you are more likely a Classical free trade Confederate.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #76 on: October 11, 2012, 08:43:47 AM »

Play along? I can't even follow your point...

On CT's self destructive ways... If you are back to talking about voter ID we have to present a state issued ID at the poll... Ironically we do not have to be Registered to Vote to cast a Presidential ballot in the General Election. The Presidential election is the only one that unregistered voters can cast a ballot in... The ones that matter (state reps, Congress, Senate) you must be a registered voter to participate in.   

On the "Foreign" cars... The drivers may be liberals, but the people making their living building them in KY, TN, SC, IN AL aren't... and many of those are also driving them (Toyota offers employees vehicles at the wholesale price as a benefit of employment)... so that is a gross generalization.. There is no such thing as Foreign vs Domestic in automobile production any longer.. I have a Chevy Suburban in the driveway and there isn't an electronic component on it that wasn't made in the south pacific... many of the hardware on it is metric... I also have a Honda Civic and it was built in Indian. A Hyundai Electra that was built in Alabama... So... not really sure what your point was?

On the rest of it... Isn't history fun?
You can embrace it for what it is... or stew about it under a dark cloud your entire life... I can't help that I am a perpetual optimist. Nothing that you posted changes the fact that the 14th wasn't Ratified willingly and with 3/4 approval of the states... Also doesn't change the fact that the Scott ruling was appropriate for the time in history, however controversial.

     
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kingbee
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« Reply #77 on: October 11, 2012, 06:47:01 PM »

♪♫ ♫ ♪♫
Another one bites the dust
♪♫
And another ones gone, and another ones gone  ♪
♪♫
Another one bites the dust…



This is not exactly a Queen Concert but another Democrat Party official, (this one working for and paid by the Obama Campaign) just bit the dust over advising potential Obama voters on how to vote multiple times for President Obama in both Texas and Florida (and for all I know) in the other 57 or is it 55 States in the Union that Obama said he has already visited.

Help me out here Barry, tell us again how many states you said there are???

http://times247.com/articles/dnc-fires-obama-campaign-staffer-for-voter-fraud

When is the promise enshrined in the 14th Amendment truly going to be freely available to all Americans? One Person One Vote?

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bluegrass
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« Reply #78 on: October 11, 2012, 07:01:50 PM »

Man those Dems sure are cheaters!!! I am glad that you point that out fairly and evenly...
Oh where is your post covering Strategic Allied Consulting when that story broke a few weeks ago?
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kingbee
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« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2012, 12:07:37 AM »

... where is your post covering Strategic Allied Consulting when that story broke a few weeks ago?

SAC got caught either forging voter registration forms or scamming their employer by submitting forms for shadow voters.  However the problem was caught by a Florida election official.  Florida is one of the states whose voter ID laws have come under scrunity by the Justice Department. 

Without the help of voter ID laws this could have never been caught.  You gave me a perfect argument for extending Voter ID laws, and this proves that voter ID laws like lady justice are blind and fair to all groups.
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