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Author Topic: Swarms, cutouts in Fl  (Read 1282 times)
jredburn
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« on: September 30, 2012, 02:50:59 PM »

I am a bee keeper in Ft Myers, Fl and I have just been informed by  Mr Michael Page, who is the Bureau Chief of the State  Entomology and Pest Control Department that beekeepers can no longer remove honey bees from other peoples property.   Period, no exceptions.   It makes no difference if they do it for free or charge for the services even tho they have the owners  permission.  I was informed that he will vigorously prosecute anyone violating his decree.
Mr Page has arbitrarily decided that honey bees are now pests and as such are governed by the laws of Pest Control.  This means that all wild bees are to be killed instead of taken to a bee yard where they can be managed and made into useful, productive pollinators and honey producers. 
For what its worth
Joe
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Larry Bees
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2012, 03:06:57 PM »

I don't do cutouts, but that's news to me.

Maybe Hardwood can comment on this one.

Larry
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hardwood
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 03:30:37 PM »

I remove bees here but am covered by a PCO. What I've seen:

Monday, July 30, 2012- News from Florida Dept. of Agriculture & Consumer Services Bureau of Entomology and Pest Control: Beekeepers cannot charge for removing bees. Bee management (live bee removal or relocation) for commerce (money) is only permitted by those with a PCO license. All previously ststed (or unstated) exemptions made or implied by FDACS or DOACS which allowed beekeepers to perform live bee removal and/or relocation under "bee management" no longer are valid reasons for performing bee removals for hire without holding a PCO license. It has been agreed following a discussion between FDACS/DOACS directorates today that they are standing by this decision that charging for bee removals now constitutes pest control and will be enforced under the pest control law. This decision comes as a result, several months ago, of Jerry Hayes asking FDACS Bureau of Entomology and Pest Control to consider regulating live bee removal as an act of pest control.

So I guess you can still do it for free.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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hardwood
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 03:33:06 PM »

Also... that the evil Jerry Hayes (who now works for Monsanto) is responsible.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
jredburn
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2012, 07:19:42 PM »

The man who calls himself AmericasBeeman is in a position to know and is a reputable source of information.  If he says we can collect swarms then I believe him.
I have enough colonies that I can split them to build up the yard to what ever size I want. The income from cut outs did little more than cover expenses so that is not that great a loss to me.

One of reasons I started this thread is that I am afraid of the unintended consequences of the process. As AB points out in his web page we have not been able to introduce new sub species of bees into our county since 1922, This is called line breeding and leads to serious problems with inbreeding. Eventually the genes wear out and the strain dies. We have experienced drastic loses in our bee population and it does not appear to be slowing down. The pesticides get stronger and the bees get weaker.
The feral bee population is getting smaller and smaller.
The Pest Control people are pushing the State to kill all the feral bees and without someone to protest they will prevail. This will result in the death of hundreds of colonies we cannot afford to lose.
The number of bee keepers that can put out the hundreds of dollars for the testing and the insurance will be very small. Considering the hassle they will have to go through and the paperwork, I doubt if more than a couple dozen will get a bee keeper license.
The commercial bee keepers bring thousands of colonies to Fl. in Sept/Oct but they are shipped to Calif. in Feb. The numbers of managed colonies available to pollinate our crops is simply not large enough to cover the requirements. The difference is made up by feral bees. (Not my original idea)
If we continue to kill the feral colonies we will eliminate all the genetic diversity that is required to maintain a healthy population as well as killing all the pollinators. The importation of European queens from other States is a stop gap measure because they are not adapted to our climate and will not perform well after the first year. The feral bees have adapted to our conditions are are survivors and are the only hope we have for long term survival.
The probability of a "Silent Spring" is looming on the horizon and growing. The failure of the food crops in this State due to lack of pollinators is like a light in a tunnel, except it is not the end of the tunnel.
If the public does not express their opinion to the Department and their State Senators, the Pest Control will prevail.
Regards
Joe
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AllenF
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2012, 10:14:32 PM »

Dont y'all have a law about swarms with an unmarked queen?
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iddee
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2012, 10:51:23 PM »

In the case of swarms, I would pay the owner 1 dollar for the bees. Then they cannot say a thing about me taking my "bought" bees home.

Then for cutouts,I would consider doing the same thing, but charging a few hundred for removing the honey and comb. Honey and comb is definitely NOT pests.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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David McLeod
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2012, 09:26:29 AM »

Look up Merrifield v California.

If you want the full background give Robb Russell a call www.thewildlifepro.net. This has never been a beekeeping issues but a PCO vs NWCO issue. Several years back the big boy PCOs were successful in stripping NWCO control away from the game and fish Dept and putting NWCOs under the Dept of Ag which immediately shut down anyone who did not have a PCO license. So all us wildlife only guys got put out of work unless we danced to the PCO tune.
It was only recently that NWCOs have regained anything with a new temporary permitting system from the Dept of Ag, basically it became untenable that PCOs generally can not do true wildlife control and they never really wanted to do predator or hog control but just wanted the structural wildlife, bats and squirrels. BTW, according to FL law a bat is a rodent, which it isn't.
The PCOs refuse to relinquish honeybees and are in full support of kill on sight orders.

I am currently trying to raise the alarm among Georgia beekeepers as our Dept of Ag has recently decided to enforce our poorly worded structural pest control act that says only licensed PCOs can remove bees from structures. For some stupid reason our state beauracrats look south and think anything FL does is the way to go.
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David McLeod
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2012, 04:16:22 PM »

I can not advise others what to do but for me two words, civil disobedience.
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
Georgia's Full Service Wildlife Solution
Atlanta (678) 572-8269 Macon (478) 227-4497
www.atlantawildliferemoval.net
georgiawildlifeservices@gmail.com
KD4MOJ
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2012, 08:36:31 AM »

Yep it looks like you can do it for free.... but Florida Statute Chapter 586 says nothing about that quoted statement. Just my 2¢.

...DOUG
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