Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
October 02, 2014, 10:35:36 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Over Wintering  (Read 5704 times)
Matz
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 23

Location: Canada


« on: October 06, 2005, 03:06:08 AM »

Got a question about insulating hives for winter.  I know down south alot of people only have to use tar paper on the outside of the hives, as your winters are much milder than the ones we experience up here in Canada.  Our average has got to be -20 celcius to -30 celcius for about 4 months (not sure what that is in Farenhiet) and I'm wondering if anyone with experience with these temps can suggest how thick of insulation to use on exterior of box.  I've designed a lid with insulation built into it that will stay on all year round, 2-3/4 inch wood covers (20x16) with R7.5 insulation in between enclosed around the edges (none of the insulation is visable) a feeder hole in the center and a 3/8 " deep, 3"wide, 5" long, vent for moisture and cleansing flights.  Just wondering what R value I should use on the entire exterior of the Hive?  I was going to use R28 on all sides and a R28 pillow on the top (all together R35.5 for top insulation) with black vapour barrier instead of tar paper.  Would this be excessive and have any negative effects if it is over insulted?  Thanks for any information.
Logged
Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2005, 06:12:38 AM »

Quote from: Matz

Our average has got to be -20 celcius to -30 celcius for about 4 months


Surely you should be better ask for local beekeeper.

Average temperature  -20 celcius to -30 celcius for about 4 months  ?

Are you sure!  We have not that kind of values even In Lapland.
But it seems to be http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/global_monitoring/temperature/tn71078_1yr.gif



 
Quote
I've designed a lid with insulation built into it that will stay on all year round, 2-3/4 inch wood covers


That kind of wooden cover is really heavy to handle.
We have now stryrofoam hives which have relly good insulation values.

More than for winter insulation hive needs during  spring upp to summer when they start brood raising.

In Northern Finland where they  have -20 celcius to -30 celcius  wintering in some kind of shelter is usual.  One man puts his hives iside a hut which have made from insutating boad and he put "frost guard" heater inside. It connet electrict heating on when temperature goes under +5C.

Wintering under snow is usual.


And that feeding hole? You just need finger tip size hole in the upper part of hive that moisture comes out from hive.


You should accustome with some  local beekeepers and learn from them how to handle hives in your area. By that you have a good reason to get new friends.
Logged
leominsterbeeman
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 461


Location: Leominster, MA


WWW
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2005, 01:48:35 PM »

Matz -  

Finsky is right  - check with a local beekeeper (if you can find one).  This sounds like a lot of insulation for a hive.  

I keep bees at 43 degrees N latitude and I do not add any insulation to the hives.  I just make sure that there is plenty of ventilation through the hive and they are protected from the wind.  

With all of the insulation, you are going to want to make it easy to remove it, just in case you get a warm spell in the middle of winter.  And you will still need good ventilation, what you described sounds like it will not provide the ventilation.
Logged

Apis629
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 823


Location: Florida


WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2005, 03:40:36 PM »

Where are you in Canada...the artic circle?  If you're right that winters get into about 20-30 below in celcius then thats 68-86 bellow in farenheight.  One thing that makes me wonder is if it stays that cold for four months then how are the bees going to break cluster to cover more honey.  If there's a cold snap like that that lasts for a few weeks you may have to previde some warmpth for the hive.
Logged

GeeBeeNC
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10

Location: Whiteville, NC


« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2005, 04:45:16 PM »

My calculations come to -30c = -22f.
-40c = -40f
Logged

GeeB

If the world were merely seductive,
That would be easy.

If it were merely challenging,
That would be no problem.

But I arise in the morning torn
Between a desire to improve the world
And a desire to enjoy the world.

That makes it hard to plan the day.
                                 E.B. White
Joseph Clemens
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 382


Location: Tucson, Arizona U S A


WWW
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2005, 05:19:52 PM »

-20C = -4F

-30C = -22F
Logged


<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
Apis629
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 823


Location: Florida


WWW
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2005, 07:43:01 PM »

Are you sure...I thought that for conversion of celcius to farenheight you multiply by nine, devide by eight and then add 32?
Logged

Joseph Clemens
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 382


Location: Tucson, Arizona U S A


WWW
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2005, 08:20:15 PM »


Formula for Celcius / Fahrenheit temperature conversions:

(5/9)*(TempF-32) = TempC

(9/5)*TempC+32 = TempF    


Logged


<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2005, 08:36:00 PM »

WWW is our friend : Fahrenheit to Celsius Converter

http://www.wbuf.noaa.gov/tempfc.htm

-40 C = -40 F , it really is! and soon after that mercurium will be hard metal. Tongue

The coldest points in Finland during 25 years has been -42C and the hottest +33C.

The coldest place in Canada or in North America is here ?
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF16/1630.html

On that day, Blezard and his coworkers for the Weather Service of Canada filed a notch into the glass casing of an alcohol thermometer because the indicator within fell below the lowest number, 80 below zero. When they later sent the thermometer to Toronto, officials there determined the temperature at Snag had dropped to minus 81.4 degrees F, the lowest official temperature ever recorded in North America.

- 81 F = - 63 C  shocked
.
Logged
Joseph Clemens
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 382


Location: Tucson, Arizona U S A


WWW
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2005, 09:28:12 PM »


Our record high temperature here is:

47.2C  =  117F
Logged


<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
Dick Allen
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 163

Location: Anchorage


« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2005, 11:50:09 PM »

(5/9)*(TempF-32) = TempC

 (9/5)*(TempC+32) = TempF


Well, I might as well wade into this too...
The first equation is ok, but the algebra is not quite right on the second equation as derived from the first equation.

To preserve equality, 32 needs to be added to both sides of the equal sign OUTSIDE of the brackets. This would then be:

(9/5) *  (5/9) * (Temp F - 32)   =  (9/5) * Temp C

Temp F - 32  =  (9/5) * Temp C

Temp F - 32  + 32  =  (9/5) * Temp C + 32

Temp F = (9/5) * Temp C + 32
Logged
Joseph Clemens
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 382


Location: Tucson, Arizona U S A


WWW
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2005, 12:23:39 AM »

Oops, messed it up when I copied it. Its fixed now.
Logged


<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
Matz
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 23

Location: Canada


« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2005, 02:20:12 AM »

Atleast we are all catching up on our conversion charts.  I was unsure what those temps were in farenheit as well.  I'm from Manitoba in central Canada, I may have been exagerating on the average temps, but info from our National weather service says that the normal daily temps for parts of Dec all of Jan and parts of Feb are -17F = -27C add windchill to this and its the coming of the next ice age.  The lids that I have made are really not all that heavy, maybe 10 lbs at most and do have adequate ventilation (3/8 deep x 3 inch wide x 5 inch long moisture vent/cleansing flight opening) along with the bottom entrance open.  Basically just a built in inner cover with insulation.  I have spoken to a friend of mine who has about 3000 hives and he has told me that R28 pillow+R7.5 insulation for the top.  I'm pretty sure that he told me R28 for sides but can't remember and I won't be speaking with him for couple weeks now.  So to be safe, I made side insulation wraps  with R28, which I know will be aqequate, I'm just wondering if too much insulation can  effect the hives negitively.
Logged
Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2005, 05:18:26 AM »

I hav ehad 3 cm / 1,2 inch wooden wall fefore and then I get styrofoam hives.

Good insulation saves 50% food during winter. Our bees eat sugar from September to end of May.  

Insulation cannot be too much because bees ventilate extra heat away. The opening may be too small.

But some year I have put colony too tight to the hive/ too small space and bees have runned too during winter. So they have died when food finished.
Logged
eivindm
Global Moderator
Field Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 648


Location: Oslo, Norway


WWW
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2005, 06:42:29 AM »

For all of you calculating between fahrenheit and celsius: Visit google and perform a "search" like this:
-20f in c
or
-20c in f

It works for most unit conversions and handles both full name (e.g. fahrenhei) and it abbrevation (f).  Used it a lot for conversion between cm and in aswell.  No more "how was that formula again?" smiley
Logged
imabkpr
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 138

Location: Bishopville, South Carolina


« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2005, 08:46:33 AM »

Quote from: Matz
Got a question about insulating hives for winter.  I know down south alot of people only have to use tar paper on the outside of the hives, as your winters are much milder than the ones we experience up here in Canada.  Our average has got to be -20 celcius to -30 celcius for about 4 months (not sure what that is in Farenhiet) and I'm wondering if anyone with experience with these temps can suggest how thick of insulation to use on exterior of box.  I've designed a lid with insulation built into it that will stay on all year round, 2-3/4 inch wood covers (20x16) with R7.5 insulation in between enclosed around the edges (none of the insulation is visable) a feeder hole in the center and a 3/8 " deep, 3"wide, 5" long, vent for moisture and cleansing flights.  Just wondering what R value I should use on the entire exterior of the Hive?  I was going to use R28 on all sides and a R28 pillow on the top (all together R35.5 for top insulation) with black vapour barrier instead of tar paper.  Would this be excessive and have any negative effects if it is over insulted?  Thanks for any information.
Logged
imabkpr
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 138

Location: Bishopville, South Carolina


« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2005, 08:58:02 AM »

matz  I would be more concerned about ample winter food and the number of bees in the hive than I would the  amount of insulation, as the bees do not heat the hive, only the cluster.  Try to keep the cold wind off of them, have winter escape and a neans of ventilation                                                                                                                                            imabkpr
Logged
Ocean
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 138

Location: Bergen County New Jersey


« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2005, 10:54:50 AM »

Quote from: leominsterbeeman
Matz -  

Finsky is right  - check with a local beekeeper (if you can find one).  This sounds like a lot of insulation for a hive.  

I keep bees at 43 degrees N latitude and I do not add any insulation to the hives.  I just make sure that there is plenty of ventilation through the hive and they are protected from the wind.  

With all of the insulation, you are going to want to make it easy to remove it, just in case you get a warm spell in the middle of winter.  And you will still need good ventilation, what you described sounds like it will not provide the ventilation.


What do you use to ventilate the hive? because i still didnt buy or did anything to it for the winter ventilation.. can someone suggest something.
Logged
Joseph Clemens
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 382


Location: Tucson, Arizona U S A


WWW
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2005, 12:53:56 PM »

What you do (or should do) is strictly regional. What I do to prepare my bees for winter here in Tucson, Arizona --- "Nothing".

Back when I kept bees in more temperate climates, Ohio, Virginia -- I made sure they had plenty of honey to eat through the winter.
Logged


<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
Finsky
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2791


Location: Finland


« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2005, 02:21:50 PM »

Quote from: Ocean

What do you use to ventilate the hive? .


Bees have just their wings. When it is moist wearther during winter days bees ventilate air away from hive with their wings.

But basic is that you have grid bottom or bottom board plate and lower and upper entrance open.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.285 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page September 20, 2014, 11:51:29 PM