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Author Topic: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey  (Read 3794 times)

Offline LoriMNnice

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NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« on: September 03, 2012, 07:03:46 PM »
So today I did a major inspection on both hives I checked every frame
Hive #1 4 mediums with nothing but bees and honey capped and uncapped, no brood, eggs, larvae nothing. Not even a queen cell.
Hive #2 1 deep 3 mediums. 3 frames of the deep had capped brood etc.

So should I combine the hives?
Take brood from hive #2 and give to #1?

I am in MN so the weather will change soon and not to much blooming anymore

Lori

Offline Pearl City Apiary

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2012, 07:22:39 PM »
If you are certain they are queenless than I would combine.  Harvest of save the honey for feeding.

How did the hives attitude seem?  Were they loud?  Agressive?

I ask becuase my russians queens have stopped laying.  Queenright but broodless.

Offline LoriMNnice

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 07:29:38 PM »
If you are certain they are queenless than I would combine.  Harvest of save the honey for feeding.

How did the hives attitude seem?  Were they loud?  Agressive?

I ask becuase my russians queens have stopped laying.  Queenright but broodless.

They were loud but I am so new to this that I thought it was because I was digging in the hive etc. I did not get stung but I was suited up but lots of bees bumping me.

In my eyes there were lots of bees in the hive but again I am not experienced what I see as lots of bees may not be lots of bees to someone else. I was shocked not see any brood etc. This has been my best hive.
Lori

Offline tillie

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2012, 09:49:10 PM »
Is there a dearth?  Not seeing eggs or larvae doesn't mean necessarily that there isn't a queen.  If the nectar flow has stopped and they are without supplies coming in, sometimes the queen quits laying because they have to have stores to raise brood.  She may be there, just not laying.  Usually when you open a queenless colony, there is a definite roar - different than normal bee humming in the hive....it's a loud, rising buzz.

Linda T in Atlanta
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Offline LoriMNnice

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2012, 10:06:53 PM »
Is there a dearth?  Not seeing eggs or larvae doesn't mean necessarily that there isn't a queen.  If the nectar flow has stopped and they are without supplies coming in, sometimes the queen quits laying because they have to have stores to raise brood.  She may be there, just not laying.  Usually when you open a queenless colony, there is a definite roar - different than normal bee humming in the hive....it's a loud, rising buzz.

Linda T in Atlanta

I was just searching your blog Linda :) No dearth still a flow but not heavy. No roar either it just sounded like normal bee buzzing when you bug them.

Would a queenless hive have a lot of bees? It seemed like every frame I pulled out was over half full of bees on both sides.

Can I wait awhile and check again for eggs or the queen? I was going to take honey from them today because they have a lot and so does my other hive so I was going to take 2-3 frames from them and 2-3 from the other hive. But I didn't take any.
Lori

Offline BlueBee

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 10:22:43 PM »
Yeah, I would wait.  I don’t see much downside in waiting but I see the potential for a problem if you combine two hives that happen to have 2 queens.  You may end up with 1 hive a no good queen.  If hive 1 really is queenless and broodless, then those bees are summer bees and will all be dead before winter really sets in.  Not sure how a bunch of dead summer bees is going to help hive 2, unless hive 2 is currently low on bees (it sounds like it is not). 

I would wait. 

BTW, I have lots of brood in my hives and there is a strong goldenrod flow still here in Michigan.  I don’t think it has even peaked yet.  Hives smell of gym socks!

Offline LoriMNnice

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 10:26:46 PM »
Yeah, I would wait.  I don’t see much downside in waiting but I see the potential for a problem if you combine two hives that happen to have 2 queens.  You may end up with 1 hive a no good queen.  If hive 1 really is queenless and broodless, then those bees are summer bees and will all be dead before winter really sets in.  Not sure how a bunch of dead summer bees is going to help hive 2, unless hive 2 is currently low on bees (it sounds like it is not). 

I would wait. 

BTW, I have lots of brood in my hives and there is a strong goldenrod flow still here in Michigan.  I don’t think it has even peaked yet.  Hives smell of gym socks!


Goldenrod just started blooming at my place and I seen bees on it today, I can't wait to smell it LOL I keep reading about it but have yet to smell it  :-D
Lori

Offline BlueBee

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 10:28:50 PM »
It is a very distinctive smell!  Start smelling around your hives now.

Offline BlueBee

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 10:59:50 PM »
If you have some spare eggs from your 2nd hive, you could put a frame with some in the 1st hive and see if they try to make a new queen.  That may be your best way to know the status of that 1st hive.

Offline Finski

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 03:22:43 AM »
.

Our beginner Lori has several problems  but a  good place to learn.

Honey


you must extract honey quickly that honey do not crystallize into combs.

If you do not extract combs what you do with them then?
After extracting you have  good combs to be used next year.
With that money you may bye good packages of bees.

It seems that Lori you  have good pastures around you.

Problems


- hive one? If it has a queen, why it has no queen. Does Lori has time to bye a new queen?
Has it swarmed?

- hive 2: why it has only 3 brood frames? Has it swarmed?

- 3 frame hive is incapable to winter. At least it is incapable to build up in Spring .

- what about mites?

To me situation seems so that hives  have got too good yield and they have not space to rear
brood. Now we are in situation that hives are week but full of honey.

The reason to this  is that a beeks try to collect "wintering stores". If pastures are good, you may extract several times from hives.

.think about this
: beekeeper's  biggest disaster is a good yield!

It took me several years that I extracted my first honey.
But reason was too my bee strain "German black mongrels". They were mad to swarm.
I got my first yield from Caucasian queen, whose origin was Canada.

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Offline T Beek

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 08:03:11 AM »
With winter approaching I'd follow bluebees advise and minimally place some eggs and brood in the suspected queenless hive 'if' the donating colony can afford it.  This isn't a good time to be queenless.  Keep an eye on them and if you still suspect they are queenless in a week or so I'd do the combine.  Even a slow queen should have 'some' brood/eggs this time of year, especially with the weather we've been getting.  If you saw zero eggs/brood, you've got a problem. 

Is the suspect colony bringing any pollen in or just nectar?

If its queenless now the remaining (forage) summer bees will not make it through your winter because the queen laid no winter bees. 

Good luck, keep us posted.  This is good education for all readers.

t
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Offline sterling

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 11:33:21 AM »
Yeah, I would wait.  I don’t see much downside in waiting but I see the potential for a problem if you combine two hives that happen to have 2 queens.  You may end up with 1 hive a no good queen.  If hive 1 really is queenless and broodless, then those bees are summer bees and will all be dead before winter really sets in.  Not sure how a bunch of dead summer bees is going to help hive 2, unless hive 2 is currently low on bees (it sounds like it is not). 

I would wait. 

BTW, I have lots of brood in my hives and there is a strong goldenrod flow still here in Michigan.  I don’t think it has even peaked yet.  Hives smell of gym socks!

Blue where can I buy gymsocks for my bees and do they keep there feet warm in the winter? :-D

Offline LoriMNnice

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 02:16:52 PM »
Here is my plan in a couple of days I am going to go through the hives again, I will take pictures too. I also have left a message with a local beek hopefuly he will be able to come here and help me. This is a great learning experience  :)
Lori

Offline Finski

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 06:19:45 PM »
I also have left a message with a local beek hopefuly he will be able to come here and help me.

that is best what you can do.
It is not easy to solve that problem without long exprience.
Summer is becoming short.
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Offline JPBEEGETTER

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2012, 01:01:48 PM »
As jp would say they absconded.   All of mine did this last year, but so far this year they are staying and looking GOOD.

Offline beehappy1950

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2012, 10:22:26 PM »
Its warm out. Do they have a place to store honey? Maybe expand brood nest with an empty  comb. Then feed to see if it starts her to laying again. I am above Detroit Lakes about 30 miles. Mine are in the best honey flow of the year now. They are going nuts. You must be in a dearth somewhere and she quit laying for a bit.

Offline LoriMNnice

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2012, 03:12:03 PM »
Here is what I did, I checked hive #1 today I did see some larvae not a lot. Still lots of bees, so I did some rearranging of the frames gave them some empty comb in place of the two frames of capped honey I took for myself. If they make it through the winter great if not thats ok.  Hive #2 I took 4 frames of honey and put empty comb in place of the frames I took.

If neither hive makes it through the winter I will just try again  :)

Thanks everyone!
Lori

Offline timdalyiii

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Re: NO brood, no eggs, no larvae nothing but honey
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2012, 04:49:51 PM »
This is a great thread.  I am having a similar issue and will be starting a new thread, but this has given me a start of things to think about.