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Author Topic: Fall dilemma  (Read 1957 times)
Nyleve
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« on: August 31, 2012, 11:22:40 AM »

I've just come back from a quick look into my hive and I am completely surprised. I took off a nearly full deep honey super about 3 weeks ago and extracted about 35 lbs. of honey. I had some brood left on the frames - it was my sneaky skinny queen who likely laid eggs above the excluder - so I put the super with the extracted frames (with capped brood) back onto the hive as a 3rd brood box. I put on a new excluder with a deep super above it. So - 4 deeps, 3 below the excluder, one above. I've just checked that top super and it's nearly full of honey, about 2/3 capped.

NOW WHAT? I know that I can't overwinter with 3 brood boxes. And I assume I will be taking off that top super filled with honey because I think that the bottom boxes are full and heavy. I will go have a deeper look into the hive when I get someone to help me - I can't lift these things by myself. Assuming the bottom and 2nd box are full and heavy, and assuming there is some brood in the 3rd box what should I do?

I have a friend with a weak hive who has suggested that I give him a box with capped brood to beef up his colony. Does this make sense?

As soon as this is all dealt with, I'll treat for mites and whatnot because I'm in Ontario and winter looms ahead.
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Joe D
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2012, 02:41:18 PM »

First, I would check to see what the 2 brood boxs look like, then decide what to do.
 If they are good and you want to give him some brood then you could.  I would consider also how much you want to give, the frames in your super or what.  Also sounds like you still have good flow going, I don't know how your seasons go.  Will this persons weak hive be able to support the additional brood and be ready for winter.  Good luck with what ever you decide.



Joe
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Finski
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2012, 03:01:26 PM »


NOW WHAT? I know that I can't overwinter with 3 brood boxes. And I assume I will be taking off that top super filled with honey because I think that the bottom boxes are full and heavy. I will go have a deeper look into the hive when I get someone to help me - I can't lift these things by myself.

If boxes are too heavy, take frame by frame off.

Take off honey frames. Extract them.
Then reload frames so that:

- brood frames to lowest box
- pollen frames not against walls because they get mould.
- pollen frames to second box but not into the centre.
- brood has time to emerge from  frames and then extract the honey.


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LoriMNnice
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2012, 03:23:58 PM »

I can't lift honey supers off either, so I take the frames out and put them in a plastic tub covered with an old sheet all of this is in a wagon and I pull it to where it needs to go
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Sour Kraut
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2012, 04:17:22 PM »

Where is it written in stone that you cannot overwinter with 3 deeps ?

'conventional wisdom' says two, but then 'conventional wisdom' used to be that alll honey was produced in section boxes.

If you feel confident they have sufficient stores, why not do it ?
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Finski
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2012, 04:41:19 PM »

Where is it written in stone that you cannot overwinter with 3 deeps ?


it is said every where..

It is nonsense to keep 3 deeps over winter.

.FOR WHAT? the reson was. I saw no reason.

Too big wintering space gather condensation water and makes mold.
More important is that heat escapes to empty space and bees must eate more .


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S.M.N.Bee
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2012, 10:39:53 PM »

Finski

I don't winter in three deeps either but the University of Minnesota has recommended it in their beekeeping classes for years.

John
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BlueBee
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2012, 11:24:59 PM »

Has the University of Minnesota recommended wintering in polystyrene boxes?  If not, their advice would seem rather dubious to me.  I would listen to Finski on this one.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2012, 11:33:59 PM »

As for the OP, I would be cautious about giving away frames of brood at this time of year.  That brood will be your winter bees!  Most of your existing bees will be dead before winter sets in. 

I would winter in 2 boxes if I were you.  I winter in even less, but I do use plenty of foam insulation.  If you have brood in that 3rd box, simply move the frames down to the bottom boxes.   It is very unlike the bees will have 2 deeps FULL of brood this time of year, so you should have no trouble finding a place in the bottom boxes to put extra frames of brood.
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Finski
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2012, 12:18:50 AM »

As for the OP, I would be cautious about giving away frames of brood at this time of year.  

That brood will be your winter bees!  

Most of your existing bees will be dead before winter sets in.  

I would winter in 2 boxes if I were you.  I winter in even less, but I do use plenty of foam insulation.  If you have brood in that 3rd box, simply move the frames down to the bottom boxes.   It is very unlike the bees will have 2 deeps FULL of brood this time of year, so you should have no trouble finding a place in the bottom boxes to put extra frames of brood.


Bluebee knows very well the secrets of good wintering. The principles are quite simple, if you accept the wisdom.

if hive has now brood in one box, hive needs for winter one box.

To store more winter food means that

-  the wintering hive system is failed OR
- BEE STRAIN is incapable to winter in this region
- ventilation/insultion is failed and bees must consume extremely much food to keep their heat on
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Nyleve
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 12:17:19 PM »

Ok as soon as I can get some help with my hive, I will check the brood and honey stores in the 3 bottom boxes. My top box - the honey super - is nearly full of honey but it's not all capped yet. I need to get on this as soon as possible so that I can get them medicated before it gets cold. And I may even get some more honey! I am not going to leave three brood boxes - if we get a cold winter (which is normal in this part of the world) I don't want them to have to keep such a big space heated. I'll insulate well - either with rigid foam or I may even try some of that stuff they use to cover water heaters.

Thanks for all the feedback.
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Gord
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2012, 08:38:31 PM »

Hi

I'm in Oshawa, and winter in 2 deeps and a medium
Then I'm sure I don't have to feed.
I also put a layer of reflectix on the north and east sides, and insulate the top, or put a warre type quilt on top.
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VolunteerK9
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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2012, 09:07:12 PM »

I can't lift honey supers off either, so I take the frames out and put them in a plastic tub covered with an old sheet all of this is in a wagon and I pull it to where it needs to go

Completely off topic, but that silly little dog makes me grin every time you post.
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MarinaDS
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2012, 09:47:27 PM »

Finski

I don't winter in three deeps either but the University of Minnesota has recommended it in their beekeeping classes for years.

John

I live in MN and took the U of M beekeeping course with Dr. Marla Spivak. Last winter I wintered with 3 deeps and that hive is still my strongest hive. They survived and survived quite well. You just put a moisture board on the top to absorb condensation and other excess moisture. Easy peasy.
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yelnifok
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2012, 11:16:29 PM »

I know we don't get the severe long term cold as you do up north but we get our share. I use sbb all year as well as my own design inner cover (3" hole in center) with a (dsic) double screen inner cover on top of that then the telescoping cover ( raised 1/4' off the dsic.) All the girls made it.
In the spring, I use the "demeiere"   method of hive manipulation and this works well. lee...
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Javin
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« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2012, 11:26:38 PM »

I can't lift honey supers off either, so I take the frames out and put them in a plastic tub covered with an old sheet all of this is in a wagon and I pull it to where it needs to go

Completely off topic, but that silly little dog makes me grin every time you post.

Seconded.
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