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Author Topic: Our ""HERO???""  (Read 2921 times)
iddee
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« on: August 28, 2012, 12:42:58 PM »

From Dreams From My Father:
"I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

From Dreams From My Father:
"I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.."

From Dreams From My Father:

"There was something about her that made me wary, a little too sure of herself, maybe and white."

From Dreams From My Father:

"It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses,
to strike out and name names."

From Dreams From My Father:

"I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself: the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela."


And FINALLY..........and most scary:

From Audacity of Hope:
"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2012, 02:58:08 PM »

...the only scary thing here is one's willingness to accept all of these out of context quotes as somehow incriminating.  Posting this speaks more to the willing ignorance and willingness to mislead than to anything bad about Obama.  There is so much legitimate criticism to make, it's a shame that the discourse gets mired down in this kind of cartoonish willingness to believe anything.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/coilofrage.asp

deknow
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deknow
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2012, 03:04:21 PM »

 "Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging.  They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

I too would stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction...and it appears that they have.

deknow
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triple7sss
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 03:20:57 PM »

Very true deknow.  Iddee, you can't trust every piece of garbage that shows up in your Inbox.  You owe it to yourself an others to do some research before chucking something against the wall just to see if it will stick.  It's easy enough in the modern age of technology to check some basic facts and from other posts you've made I'd like to think you're a little better than to spread half- and untruths.
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2012, 03:29:47 PM »

of course, both of you have read obamas books??

triple7, i was just in your town.  nice place and nice people. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2012, 04:00:02 PM »

actually, no, I have not read any book by Obama, and I have no interest in doing so.  ...but none of this is even part of any kind of case against Obama.  I certainly can't take anyone seriously who posts this stuff....after all, anyone who desires "truth" would want to know what the context was i these quotes.

deknow
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 05:34:51 PM »

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/06/obamas-dreams-of-my-father/

well, here's a bunch of quotes IN context. 

i don't get a different picture with the context than i get from the above, true or not, quotes.  read the books they are enlightening. obamas America is one i have never, until now, seen.  it's not pretty.

and it is part of the case against him because he does not view this country as most of us do.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 06:43:35 PM »

Now that you have read Snopes, the most leftist website on the net, read Kathy's post. As she said, the deep meaning, in context or out, remains the same.

 
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 08:43:14 PM by iddee » Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2012, 08:24:25 PM »

Keep it polite,or else. All in this thread know the rules.
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kingbee
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2012, 11:39:43 PM »

... They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly...


Come on deknow, you are not describing anything that right this minute is not occurring in say France with their forced repatriation of the Roma.  Or the closure laws in Great Brittan’s past.  Or the looming Independence of Scotland from Brittan.  Or the division of the former Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia.   Cheezh, look at the goings on in "Paradise" where the native Fijians would gladly seize any opportunity to massacre every Hindu in sight.  Your country is not the greatest evil in this world, not even close.

Triangle of Death


What I do find strange is that Obama is considered an African American by Americans yet the father whose dreams he shares is a member of an ethnic tribal group that in the recent past actively hunted down and enslaved Black Africans to supply human merchandise to the slave markets of Egypt, Arabia, Libya, and Zanzibar.  But stranger things have happened, Its just been a long long time since they did.

From Darfur: Children's Drawings of Genocide 1/2


Bilad al-Sudan, meaning ‘Land of the Blacks’ stretches from the Red Sea to the Atlantic Ocean.   The motivation for Arabs going to Sudan was financial gain from gold, ivory, and slaves. The British colonial regime in Sudan administered the Arab North separately from the Animist and Christian South (still the target of Northern slavers) under the auspices of protecting the southern Sudanese peoples from slavery.   See my previous thread about Churchill and my mention of his book, The River War.  Ending northern Sudan’s slave catching industry was a prime war aim of the British at the end of the 19th Century.  Churchill wrote about this war aim in his book The River War.   No wonder Obama dislikes Churchill.  In fact the word Safari comes from Arabic and means an armed expedition into unknown country usually to catch slaves by attacking the indigenous natives, and knocking off as many pachyderms as is humanly possible.

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/flash_point/darfur/

Sudan’s current borders, were the outcome of a German conferences in 1884.  Local ethnic differences were not taken into account when boundars were drawn up. Warring tribes were lumped together in a single political entity (like The Sudan) resulting in local armed conflicts, while kindred peoples or natural allies were separated by these same borders, upsetting the ballance of power, African power.  These artificial borders have contributed to every armed conflict in post-colonial Africa.

http://www.bc.edu/publications/chronicle/TopstoriesNewFeatures/features/Darfur022609.html
Notice that the drawing shown is in a link from Boston College.  The drawing was produced by a young Dinka tribesman and he had no trouble telling his own ethnic group from others despite everyone in this part of Africa looking Black to jaded Western eyes.  You would think that this child’s village was attacked by Native Americans by looking at his drawings of armed “Red Men,”  but it just isn’t so.  These red men are ethnically Arabs who (At least to the local Dinka Blacks) have a different colored skin.  
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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2012, 12:04:02 AM »

i have not read your article so it might address this, but another component of the slave trade in Africa was religion.  Muslims have always been slave traders and  in Africa, as the religion spread, capturing and selling those who did not convert was an easy solution and made money.  black Muslim Africans were often called "Arab" because they were Muslim and Islam was thought of as an Arab religion.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2012, 12:07:19 AM »

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/dnc-announces-2-hour-islamic-jumah-prayers-after-rejecting-cardinals-blessing-and-you-wont-believe-whos-invited/#

i understand that liberals would find this site suspect, but there is plenty of info in here for you to fact check.  you won't find the MSM reporting this stuff, so this is a starting place.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2012, 01:07:51 AM »

The first four quotes paint a picture of Obama being very race conscience at the very least, and at least somewhat anti white in his thinking.  He idolized his father, whom he really knew very little about in his early years except what his mother and others told him.  His mother was anti american.  His father was anti American.  She shipped little Obama off from Indonesia when his step dad, Soetoro, became too buddy buddy with oil industry capitalists, so that he could be raised and influenced by liberals and communists that were more aligned with his bio father.  This guy was not raised in a "color blind" environment nor by people who love the USA. 

As siding for with Islam if things get ugly, why single Muslims out?  You'd think if his point is to not make the internment camp mistake again, there are lots of ways to convey this.  The Japanese US citizen situation in WWII was different.  To my knowledge, there were not a lot of subversives, if any of Japanese descent.  But radical Muslims are known to lay in waiting, blending in until the time is right to strike.  I am sure there many Muslims that are peaceful and would not deserve internment... I know a few myself.  So why wasn't Obama's message, if you here in the USA to be constructive, productive and a positive influence in our great nation (regardless of race or faith) then welcome?  But if you are here to do harm, to be destructive, etc.  We will find you and weed you out! 

I find it very difficult to trust him.  His interests are not aligned with the best interest of the US.
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deknow
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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2012, 11:38:51 AM »

...you can read the context of these quotes on any number of websites, doesn't matter if it is snopes or politicact, or if you check the books out of the library.  What do we think happened???  ...that Obama made these specific statements in one context, and now that there is an email circulating around with the quotes, the internet is full of 1984 style re-writers who are plugging these quotes into a less threatening context in order to appease the masses?

There are so many substantive issues that Obama can be faulted for directly (the GM bailout, medicare plan, etc)...why focus on made up stuff engineered to play people off of one another based on race and/or religion?

deknow

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/10/dreams-my-father-quotes-require-context/
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kathyp
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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2012, 12:27:44 PM »

you are right about that.  the only thing about knowing what he's said and where he's come from, is that it gives us an indication of his thought process.  knowing why and how he thinks, lets us know a bit about where he intends to end up. 

if more time had been spent on learning about him in the first place, i wonder if as many people would have been happy to vote for him?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2012, 01:26:22 PM »

Knowing what he said is useful...these quotes (in the context they are presented in the email forward) are not.  They are presented to mislead rather than to educate.

deknow
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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2012, 01:43:33 PM »

Knowing what he said is useful...these quotes (in the context they are presented in the email forward) are not.  They are presented to mislead rather than to educate....they are the result of picking apart a whole lot of text and pulling out a few individual sentinces that can be misconstrued by not reading a few sentinces around them.

The "deep meaning" you wish to ascribe to these quotes is in your head(s).  My gosh...I wouldn't want a president that wasn't concerned about innocent Americans being interned (or something similar) when racial paranoia takes hold of the people.....but this concern is both out of context and misquoted in order to make it sound like he is writing in his books that he is personally preparing the US for a Muslim invasion.

If this is the most "incriminating" stuff in his books, I don't see a problem, I don't even see a reason to bring it up.  If there are ideas in his writing that could be of concern, It would be nice if those who keep telling me that is the case could actually provide some meaningful quotes.  It isn't about context, it is about intent...and the intent here is to mislead.

deknow
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iddee
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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2012, 06:09:21 PM »

""but this concern is both out of context and misquoted in order to make it sound like he is writing in his books that he is personally preparing the US for a Muslim invasion.""

And those who are not blinded by the smoke screen can see that very plainly. He is well on his way with his plan.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2012, 08:49:24 AM »

...so the "smokescreen" is cleared when we misquote what was actually said?  Isn't that called a lie?  How can lying about what someone said get us closer to the truth?  Would your opinion be expressed more clearly if someone who didn't like you for a variety of reasons lied about what you said?
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kingbee
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« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2012, 02:44:21 PM »

How about defending or explaining the words in the President's book instead of casting dispersion on your fellow beekeepers.
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deknow
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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2012, 08:12:02 PM »

Huh?  my "fellow beekeepers" are telling me that they can put words in the presidents mouth that are more accurate than his own....and that somehow this is worthwhile dialog.  My "fellow beekeepers" have already told me that these quotes have the same meaning despite the context...not noting that some of them are not even quotes.

"Arab and Pakastani Americans" are....Americans.  They are not "The Muslims", they are Americans.  It isn't as if this is a speech somewhere and someone didn't take the best notes...this is a published book, and even the link Kathy provided for the actual context (presumably less left wing than the site with the same text and the same assessment as snopes) calls it a false claim.  How could this be misquoted by anyone that is trying to be truthful?

I get it...you think the president is a secret muslim (or not so secret).  I share a lot of the dissatisfaction that many do with Obama's performance and policies (I did not vote for him)....but come on....I can't root for a team who lies to me in order to win my support.

deknow
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triple7sss
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« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2012, 01:11:41 PM »

Oh man Iddee...a conspiracy?  A vast conspiracy to permit an invasion create a Muslim state in what...4 or 8 years of an Obama presidency?  I think one of the basic problems with conspiracy theory is that once you've accepted it then everything including evidence to the contrary and logical counterpoint is twisted to support the conspiracy.  To the conspiracy theorist anything anyone says in dispute is invalid because either a) the other person must be part of the conspiracy or b) the other person is oblivious to the conspiracy. 

"FDR knew the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor and let it happen!"  "Bush knew about 911 beforehand!"  It just generally ain't helpful in advancing discourse or finding the truth.  On the other hand I guess we all arrive at our own version of what is going on and if what you perceive to be happening helps makes sense of the world I can't knock it too much.  I guess I just disagree.

Glad you enjoyed Fort Collins kathyp!  It is a nice town but it's getting a little crowded.  Just moved back from Montana and am sort of overwhelmed by the humanity.

On another note...me and some other yah-hoos from Montana will be headed out to North Carolina so we can drive up to Boone and watch the University of Montana play Appy State.  Looking forward to a good time and the chance to poke around iddee's state for a bit.



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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2012, 03:42:24 PM »

Triple7, watch out for Appy State.  They can be a real spoiler Sad Sad Sad
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iddee
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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2012, 04:48:24 PM »

Triple, I imagine your statement was repeated nearly verbatim in Germany many times between 1933 and 1941. No one believed what was happening until it was too late. We are now sending government checks to half the population, of which a large percentage aren't even US citizens. We have spent more than the currant tax income can pay in 2 generations. The welfare and other expenses are climbing while the gdp is falling. Just what makes you think this can continue and the country stay afloat?

PS. If you are going to be near Greensboro, NC, PM me. I'll send you my address and phone number. Just because we don't agree politically, don't mean we can't be friends. Come by for a cup of coffee or cold beer and talk bees for awhile.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2012, 06:21:48 PM »

Idee,  I agree with all the political stuff in your last post....this is the kind of thing worthy of discussion and attention.  The quotes in the OP, are no more relevant than lies that are spread by moveon. Org, speaking the truth moves us forwards...lies repress us all.

Deknow
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iddee
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« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2012, 06:35:34 PM »

Many people are afraid of the truth. They will only understand and accept if exaggerated greatly.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2012, 07:16:19 PM »

Man, iddee that'd be just alright and a lot of fun.  I'll see how it goes and if we get close I'll hit you up.  I suspect we'd agree on more things than not and thanks for the invite.

Appy State came out to Missoula a couple years ago for a semi-final playoff game and that was one of the best games I've ever been to.  We're kind of "unsettled" at QB so I don't know how well the Griz will play but I'm really looking forward to it.

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« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2012, 10:26:39 PM »

Isn't that the same logic/mechanism that causes others to call you racist?  I don't think you are a racist, but a little exaggerating of some of the things you do say would place you squarely there.

...so whom do we trust to accurately exaggerate things greatly so that "some people" will understand things properly?  "Debbie...from the internet"?

Deknow
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iddee
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« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2012, 10:37:45 PM »

But, deknow, I am a racist. Just ask Beemaster. He told me I was. LOL..

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2012, 09:07:09 PM »

... Oh man ...A vast conspiracy to permit an invasion create a Muslim state in what...4 or 8 years of an Obama presidency?  ..."FDR knew the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor and let it happen!"  "Bush knew about 911 beforehand!" [etc]...

FDR did know that a Japanese attack on the United States was coming.  Just as an attack by the Iranians on us is a real possibility.  In 1941 FDR cut off all oil sales to Japan.  We were Tokyo's only supplyer of oil.  FDR had Japan in a hammer lock over their occupation of Chinese territory, and furthermore FDR had Tokyo backed into an oil less corner.  It was a lead pipe cinch that Japan would come out swinging and attack us.  Only the time and place and manner of the attack was in doubt.  So when Japan attacked who should be surprised?  NO ONE, but FDR least of all.

Was it a conspiracy? No not at all.  It however is real world politics or statesman ship, like that played by the big boys.  The dead on both sides are... well they are all still dead, never more to ever be heard or seen again.  That is both a tragedy as well as a cautionary tail for the future.  The wise will heed this lesson while the foolish will repeat the class year.

What Obama and his ilk is about is destroying everything now in existence.  It is his fervent hope to rebuild society in his own image on the ashes of the previous society.  Making civil wars more likely and destroying the old to create a blank canvas to draw on in the future is just one statesman ship strategy of many.

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