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Author Topic: VP Pick  (Read 27038 times)
iddee
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« Reply #120 on: September 01, 2012, 03:57:16 PM »

Bluebee, as you said.

You pay for all yours. It is about 250.00 a year.

Most of your parent's is paid by ins. It's about double yours.

Now make it free and it will be 1000.00 a year. People have a tendency to use less of anything that costs more.

That's why I agree with doing away with ins. other than catastrophic, but I do not agree with free to everyone at the taxpayer's expense. Let each pay for his own. Then the rich doctors and ceos will take a cut in pay and the poor folks will have more left when they don't have to pay out 75% of income in taxes.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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BlueBee
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« Reply #121 on: September 01, 2012, 10:26:12 PM »

If opposites like Iddee and I can agree to a solution, why canít Congress find a solution?  Itís not like this is a new problem!
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kingbee
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« Reply #122 on: September 02, 2012, 07:09:09 PM »

... What personal choice does it [expanded government] take away? I work for X employer and as a benefit of that job I got Health Insurance through Blue Cross. If tomorrow they wanted to change my insurance provider they can without my consent. What kind of choice is quite my job or take what they decide?...

If one enjoys a government that is expended to the degree you seem to prefer, then one works for a government owned or government controlled industry.  In that case what choice do you have in any decision the government makes for you, or makes to your employment status.  Everything in your life is static. You are frozen in a bureaucratic neither world that never improves.  Since change is inevitable, the only way for change to occur is for negative change to happen, and happen it will.   

The last time I looked it was easier to change jobs than it was to swap nations.  That is what makes the USA unicue, we are a nation of people who changed nations rather than accept the status quo imposed by a government sanctioned cast system like the one that existed in many small European states prior to the middle of the 19Th century. 

Let's say you wanted to marry.  First you needed the permission of the local poobah, be he King, Earl, Duke, or Barron.  To obtain the needed permission you had to have proof of gainful employment.  Now this was not so hard to provide since many of the jobs were government jobs, like customs inspectors, tax collectors, armorers, even librarians or teachers all employed by the current ruler who already knew how much he paid you.  And who at a moments notice could shatter your rice bowl for political considerations.  For everyone else there was often a vast network of spies and informants who collected information on every one old enough to have an opinion.  No job equals no wedding bells or wedded bliss for you.  In addition, because new housing was scarce and dear, you must already have a house for you and your future bride to play house in.  I know it sounds cruel to you but to the poobah it was just a good way to fight homelessness.

No problem you say?  Ill just move 30 clicks down the road and get a job in that neighboring state that is building a new fangled railroad.  Hold it, wait up, your all knowing benevolent ruler, the great poobah, will not allow that.  He may at any moment desperately need your warm body and strong back in his army to either plug a hole in the national defence, or else attack some other nation.  As long as you were under 45 or 50 years old the poobah considered you as an unpaid, self rationing member of his armed forces, and woe be to you if you tried to escape service in the poobah's military industrial complex by giving up the "job" your ruler created for you and move to a neighboring state.  Personages as infamous as Mussolini and Hitler both fell into the bad graces of their respective ruling poobahs by emigrating before their "required" military service was completed.

Now how would you like being a buck private in some Duke of Earl's army with me as your NCO?  police  huh Ummm, sounds good too me.   grin

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bluegrass
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« Reply #123 on: September 09, 2012, 12:30:01 PM »


Bluegrass, where did you get your copy of the bill's PDF? Where do you get "... HR 3590 [and] is exactly 899 pages long"? My copy came from house.gov.


The Library of Congress:
All Bills Get called a Bill, and assigned a HR # even if not passed and signed by the President Wink The bill you cited is the House of Representative's Draft.... The bill signed into law is HR 3590 and is 899 pages long.

HR 3962 was abandoned in 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affordable_Health_Care_for_America_Act
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bluegrass
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« Reply #124 on: September 09, 2012, 12:49:54 PM »

So what do the Romney supporters here think of his interview on Meet the Press where he stated that he will keep major parts of "Obamacare".
Now that he has the Nomination he can loosen up about his real political positions.

So much for his April interview where he said "I will repeal Obamacare in it's entirety, and quite frankly I will do it on my first day"

Like I said before... Lot's of Conservatives will be really Disappointed. 

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buzzbee
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« Reply #125 on: September 09, 2012, 12:55:42 PM »

The conservatives in the House can defund the whole thing. I wish they would do it.They are not bound by law to further fund it.
He can only fund what the House of Representatives writes into a spending bill. Hopefully Ryan keeps him on the right path,although Ryan has signed onto spending bills he should not have.

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buzzbee
Ken
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« Reply #126 on: September 09, 2012, 12:59:16 PM »

P.S.
I did not see the interview. I may have to try to catch it myself and see it.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #127 on: September 09, 2012, 01:03:12 PM »

The House is up for election in it's entirety... It would be pretty dumb to promise "repeal" in the method you state... He may not have a majority. If he wins his hands may be completely tied on the issue... I think he is shifting gears to ease the public into that reality.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #128 on: September 09, 2012, 01:22:06 PM »

I don't think the Republicans are in danger of losing the House.The Dems are more likely to lose the size of the majority in the Senate, if not altogether.
The jobless numbers properly analyzed are dismal at best.Taking into account people no longer actively looking for work,the true unemployment number is up much further than the Obama administration would have you believe. Even if 96000 jobs were added last month,thats less than 2000 per state,not really bragging rights.
 The stimulus did not work.Our children and grandchildren will be paying back the 40 cents of every dollar our government is spending. Why would people want to spend their childrens future with them not even having a say in the matter. That is disgusting in my point of view.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #129 on: September 09, 2012, 01:24:26 PM »

It would not be "dumb" to repeal it in this matter. that is the only way to get spending under control is to say "No".The government is out of money and it is not a revenue problem,they are spendaholics spending money which they have no Constitutional mandate to do.
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buzzbee
Ken
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« Reply #130 on: September 09, 2012, 01:30:42 PM »

In reflection on Obabacare and Romney care in MA at least the Romney plan was done at the state level where it should be done. Not at the Federal level. Each state could tailor a plan to suit it's needs instead of a one size fits all plan.With that option it would be closer to being controlled by the people who have an easier time changing things at the state level.
the powers belong to the people first,states second and the Fed should only be using powers granted to it by the first two. It's a sad lesson people do not understand the Constitution was written to limit the power of the federal government. Not the powers of the citizens and collective of states.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #131 on: September 09, 2012, 01:37:45 PM »

Even with the Majority now he would not have enough votes to "Repeal" which is what he has promised to do. It would take a 2/3rd majority.

I can't understand how anybody can Afford to stop looking for work.. If I were unemployed that would be a great luxury to have. What the Media fails to report when they report the numbers is that the population in question changes. For example if you are unemployed and enter college or the military you are dropped into the "no longer looking for work" category.

The Job numbers are not going to make or break this election...  There are only 12.5 million people out of work and 155 million who vote. Most Americans don't even know a person who is out of work. Times have changed from the days when every town had factory workers and if a factory closed everybody in town knew about it. Those days are gone...
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bluegrass
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« Reply #132 on: September 09, 2012, 01:39:54 PM »

In reflection on Obabacare and Romney care in MA at least the Romney plan was done at the state level where it should be done. Not at the Federal level. Each state could tailor a plan to suit it's needs instead of a one size fits all plan.With that option it would be closer to being controlled by the people who have an easier time changing things at the state level.
the powers belong to the people first,states second and the Fed should only be using powers granted to it by the first two. It's a sad lesson people do not understand the Constitution was written to limit the power of the federal government. Not the powers of the citizens and collective of states.

I can understand that argument and it is a ligit one... But Romney is planning to do something on the Federal level. And it now includes keeping parts of Obamacare in effect.
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kingbee
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« Reply #133 on: September 09, 2012, 03:38:06 PM »

My daughter lost her job at a local hospital last week because of the new Obama Care regulations that are soon to be in effect.  Her job in records is going away because it has been outlawed.  Her job is now performed by a drop down menu on a computer screen that asks the doctor to chose from one or the other of several listed diseases, conditions, or maladies regardless of what the doctor thinks is, or is not wrong with you.

My wife who is a Registered Nurse in the Emergency Room along with the doctors just had their tech helpers in the ER taken away.  Now the ER doctors, NPs, and RNs must do all the charting, take all the specimens, do all the admitting, take all the temperatures, do all the blood pressures, stock all the rooms with band aids, as well as make every bed in the ER before a new patient is seen.  If you thought the wait in the ER was long and tedious before, wait until you see the delays, run rounds, and endless referrals to no-existant family doctors you're going to experience after Obama Care is fully implemented.

1976 Toyota Corona Station Wagon Commercial

 
"You asked for it, you got it..."
 but the question is, will you want more of it the following morning, or will one night of pleasure end in a lifetime of regret?
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buzzbee
Ken
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« Reply #134 on: September 09, 2012, 04:04:13 PM »

 You can't understand how some one can not afford to look for work?

Makes you wonder why there are more on welfare and food stamps than ever. Not to mention those hitting the SSi disability plan from not being able to work now because of the  mental stress of being unemployed.

 You really do not know someone unemployed? Come on now. I know quite a few,and not proud of some of them. You know,the ones who thought they would accept the full term of unemployment as a well deserved vacation.
I do know of others that went and found other employment when they were terminated from a previous  job.

Jobless numbers will have an effect, as numbers increase people wonder if they will be next. And when that sets in,they slow the discretionary spending,which snowballs into others losing jobs.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #135 on: September 09, 2012, 04:27:54 PM »

King I am sorry about your daughters loss of work, but no I do not know anybody who is out of work. I have a family member who is "underemployed" but that is of their own doing lets say.... Though they blame Obama  rolleyes

As far as being replaced by a computer... That is part of any business now days... Every time I go to the Grocery store their are less cashiers and more self check lines.

I started in heathcare 13 years ago as a "runner". I moved labs and other items around the hospital. At that time we had about 30 runners to cover the entire hospital 365/24. I moved up to an OR tech and today I am an RN. The job I started in is now done by 4 robots and the 30 runners don't exist any longer. I don't see efficiency as a drawback. We all are responsible to anticipate the changes in our fields and improve our selves to adapt to the changes. I don't know what people will be doing in another 100 years... I think all workers are on the path to being replaced by a machine. I see it every day even as an RN. Every time we get new equipment it does more and more stuff for us. We have hospital beds now that can turn the Patient, take their body temp and other Vital Signs, weighs the patient, and puts all that information into the computer for us...

I have long said that we have too many Nursing Aids. I frequently bring that point up at staff meetings. I am used to working with a 30.1 ratio and we have 8.1 ratio which is the same as Nurses.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #136 on: September 09, 2012, 05:58:27 PM »


Jobless numbers will have an effect, as numbers increase people wonder if they will be next. And when that sets in,they slow the discretionary spending,which snowballs into others losing jobs.

Your statement was contradictory... First you state that people can afford to stop looking for work because Foodstamps and SSI. Then you state that unemployment will have an impact in favor of Romney.... If I was on SSI and foodstamps I would keep the Democrats for obvious reasons.

But your statement about the SSI may have some truth to it... I just looked up the states with the highest unemployment rates... and the top 4 are all in Obama's court. Nevada, Rhode Island, California and New Jersey...(blue) Followed by South Carolina (red).
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BlueBee
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« Reply #137 on: September 09, 2012, 07:55:41 PM »

The Job numbers are not going to make or break this election...  There are only 12.5 million people out of work and 155 million who vote. Most Americans don't even know a person who is out of work. Times have changed from the days when every town had factory workers and if a factory closed everybody in town knew about it. Those days are gone...

You know I agree with about everything you say Bluegrass, but I am going to have to side with Buzzbee on this one.  Wow, I canít believe you donít know of anybody unemployed.  There are lots of lots of people in Michigan in that boat and I know plenty.  The times may not have changed as much as you think outside of the coasts.  Middle American still makes a lot of stuff and still employees a lot of designers, engineers, managers, programmers, accountants, labor, in doing so.  Yes there is much less UAW, but still lots of salaried people that oversee the robots, etc.  The money those people makes then circulates in our economy and everybody benefits or suffers in accordance to the flow of $$$$.

When product isnít moving, shifts close and people lose their jobs around here.  As Buzzbee says, it has a snowball effect in the Midwest economy.  Iím an Obama supporter, but I know this is going to hurt his chances.  At this point, I believe (and the polls show) Obama is still going to win re-election, but it will be a squeaker.  Enough voters still realize it was Bush and the Republicans that created this mess and it will take years and years to fix.  Obama wins unless there is some new economic crisis before the election.
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buzzbee
Ken
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« Reply #138 on: September 09, 2012, 08:59:59 PM »

I may be wrong,but I think Kingbees point was that the Doctors and trained staff will be spending more of their time on clerical things instead of treating patients.This will ultimately effect quality of care,not cost efficiency.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #139 on: September 09, 2012, 09:02:05 PM »

And no contradiction really, a lot of the employed paying for the unemployed  may vote that had not previously taken the time.
By your own statement of numbers that is a huge voting block.
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