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Author Topic: VP Pick  (Read 23260 times)
bluegrass
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« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2012, 02:25:37 PM »

I don't see either candidate as a change from anything. We can keep a lame duck Obama for 4 more years and not pay his Presidential pension on top of Romney's salary. That is about the best budget cut I see in this election. Put Romney in and he will likely cost us trillions in his first two years just like Obama did.

He wants to start by getting rid of a piece of legislation that cost millions to draft and implement over the course of nearly a year. He either wants to do nothing as far as replacement goes and just let the Healthcare industry go belly up, or he wants to draft something new and spend all that money over again... we can't be sure because he hasn't really outlined any plan on that.
And he wants to do all that because the public have been told that this piece of legislation is going to cost them big time... But it hasn't been implemented yet so how do they know what it will cost? I work in healthcare and our hospital has been working for over a year to get so that they are in compliance with the law when it's provisions start taking effect... It has cost us millions of dollars in preparation. Other hospitals are also prepping and spending the same money.  So all that money will be thrown out as well because they prepped for something that didn't happen. 
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« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2012, 03:23:22 PM »

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The day you hear Obama camp mention his religion in an ad... you send me a PM

This is political mine field for Obama.  He has sent mixed messages on his own faith, claiming to be a Christian, yet seeming more focused on appeasing Muslims.  The only real evidence of him being a Christian is having attended the Reverend Wright's church and his claim to be a Christian.  But his actions tell a different story...hosting Iftar dinners, acknowledging Ramadan, observing Islamic prayer day, and being inclusive of all faiths on national day of prayer (which is good), while remaining aloof with respect to his own Christian faith.  If he tries to make an issue with Romney's Mormon faith his own beliefs and actions will be put under the magnifying glass.  I don't think he wants this and he and his handlers are smart enough to avoid it...
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bluegrass
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« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2012, 03:47:10 PM »

He has also observed Passover... maybe he is a Muschrijew grin
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« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2012, 05:21:48 PM »

Maybe he's an atheist and tries to play the people for fools. He's done a great job at that thus far.
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« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2012, 05:37:41 PM »

Put Romney in and he will likely cost us trillions in his first two years just like Obama did.  
You are correct Blluegrass!  Romney’s spending will make Obama’s spending look like skid row.  The Republican’s always outspend the Dems AFTER they get elected.  Heck, ole’ Newt proposed building a trillion dollar manned moon base just a few months ago.  The spending NEVER stops with them and the ideas are almost always crazy.  A moon base folks!  Of all our problems, and they come up with a manned moon base huh

I will agree with the consensus that Ryan was a good choice for Mitt.  It shows he’s not going to pander to this or that group just to collect some votes.  Kudo’s to Mitt for picking somebody with a brain.  I would agree with Ryan that we can’t tax our way out of this debt mess, but there is little evidence that cutting our way out (during a recession) is going to work either.  Take a look at Europe; pure austerity is not working; it shrinks economic growth even more. 

I’m certainly in favor of massive cuts, but it will never happen, no matter which party is in charge:  Again history proves this fact.  So given reality, Obama is still the best man for the job.
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« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2012, 07:28:37 PM »

I'm assuming the money we just spent going to Mars was ok?
With only the Russians and Chinese in near earth orbit,we do have a national security risk.
The only reason Clintons did not spend through the roof is because the Republican Congress(Newt at that) dragged him kicking and screaming to a balnaced budget. You need to look at who was in charge of Congress when the blowout spending took place. The largest ever deficit increases were under the care of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid with a willing pen in the White House willing to sign any thing that crossed his desk when the Dems had both houses.
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kathyp
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« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2012, 08:08:29 PM »

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Take a look at Europe; pure austerity is not working; it shrinks economic growth even more.

probably can't use that as an example.  they never achieved it because the labor force threw a fit.  + they have even more entitlement programs than we do and once you have them in place they are pretty hard to cut....as we are seeing. 

my sister told me something about the elections in england.  their NHS is a mess and extremely expensive.  every election is, in part, about the NHS, but never about cutting it, having people pay for it, etc.  not long ago the suggestion was made that people pay a couple of pounds for office visits.  because care is "free" it's very much abused.  the though was that if people had to pay just a little, they might not run in with every snotty nose.  no joy.  the people had a cow because if they had to pay it wouldn't be free and free is what they were promised.

true austerity in government spending doesn't shrink economic growth.  since the government takes money out of the private sector to spend, less spending by the government is good for private sector health. 

funding and legislating are the two main powers of the congress.   a president may wish to do many things, but he must have funding.  one of the ways that obama has been able to get around the legislative part and do things by edict is that congress is funding the departments that obama is using to push his agendas.  this is one of the reasons the dems have not done a budget in 3 + years.  people don't pay much attention to continuing resolutions for funding, but if they saw what was being spent, and why, in the budget that is legally required BTW, they could see what's being spent and on what.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2012, 08:25:55 PM »

Well, time for more rambling.
First let me comment on the catholics and jews. As I am neither I can only make suppositions based solely upon my interactions with individuals from both groups. If I am wrong and offend please let me apologize up front as I have nothing but respect for both. I will also openly state my own preconceived biases based upon my own southern and Southern Baptist upraising. First on the catholics, as a southerner most catholics I have known are either recent imports from points north and as a southerner those folks "not from around here" are viewed as strange to begin with. I also have lots of experience with many southern catholics of both roman and orthodox persuasions as the Birmingham area was the recipient of many Slovakian and Silesian (Poland) emigrees to work the coal mines and stell industry, btw this is also why alot of those other catholics came down from the union I mean northern states. Next as a Southern Baptist the jewish people are held in very high regard and even though we had very little interaction the children of Israel are the chosen people and God's own. To go against them is to go against God Himself.
Again JMO but the catholics I know are all of a very decent sort and by and large are what I would consider to be of the same mindset as myself and conservative to very conservative in their personal and public lives. For that matter almost every one other than some real freaks that I have found in the big cities like Atlanta here when confronted with basic life decisions will respond as a conservative. The thing that I, from the outside, see in catholics is a group think mentality. Not that they are robots but from birth they are raised to accept that the teachings of the holy father and by extension the church itself as completely infallible. Not that this as a tenet of faith is a bad thing, I myself have but one infallibity that I adhere to and that is that the Holy Bible is the unadulterated truth of God and it under the guidance of the Holy Spirit that I am to read and understand it. Now for the reason catholics have tended to vote for the democratic party, I see it as a combination of two things. First and foremost both the priesthood and monastic orders, possibly save the jesuits, have been infiltrated by socialists, perverts and other neer do wells. The laity trained to take all direction from the church are pawns in the hands of liberals. Now I do see some hope in the current pontiff's appointment of more conservative cardinals here in the US plus the vatican has been forced to clean house of alot of the perverts and their allies. This is reason for hope as well as the rank and file catholic being more willing to not take everything at face value. Combine this with Obama's assault on conscience in the mandates in the healthcare bill and the resultant opposition from the church and the old lock on their votes may be broken. Even if only half of the voting catholics come over then that is one voting block neutralized.
Now for a group I know even less of personally the jewish voters. Again from the outside looking in. I see two types of jewish people. Those that remember the greatest tragedy of mankind's history, the pogroms up to and including the halocaust and mean it when they say NEVER AGAIN. These jews are Israelis and are over there fighting ever day for the right to live. The rest are american jews safe and comfortable behind the moat of oceans. This comfort has led to guilt which has led to massive charity campaigns, first to support the other kind of jew and second the rest of the suffering and depressed peoples of the world. Not that charity is a bad thing but it has led to the very thing that all leftist thinkers share, a self assured sense of superiority. Couple this with the known fact that the US was populated by jewish refugess from all parts of eastern europe to include portions of the former soviet union and many of these emigrees were and their descendants to this day are innoculated with the contagion of Marx. Now please do not take this as a blanket statement because it is not but speaks only to what I as an observer have seen of the portion of this population in places of importance. I speak more towards the Barbara Streisands than the Joe Greenbergs (he was the first jew I ever met in my small comunity when he bought the old Wallace's Barbecue joint, yes PORK barbecue is there any other).
Next I'll speak to the community I am far more familiar (literally) with and that is the black or african american community of the south. I am still to this day trying to puzzle out just how they went in less than a single generation from Selma and the schoolhouse door to full support of the party of George Wallace, so much so that the blacks of Alabama elected the little judge from Clio to his fourth term as Governor in 1983.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2012, 08:44:45 PM »

I'm assuming the money we just spent going to Mars was ok?

We didn't just spend that money. The MER program was started in 2003, There were 4 funding extensions from 2003 til 2007 and then a 5th in 2009.
I think to date we have spent 100 million on the mars rovers. But that is chunk change compared to the other missions we currently are funding.
Scroll.....
 http://www.nasa.gov/missions/current/index.html
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« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2012, 08:45:34 PM »

i think you got part of it with Catholics and Jews.  1st, i married into a catholic family.  they are all liberals.  i'll exclude my mother-in-law from my observations because she is the most obnoxiously racist person i have ever met!

the catholic, jewish, and we'll add muslim to this, are historically both religions and government.  in protestant christianity we are taught individual  responsibility.  we are responsible for our choices, our relationship with god, etc.  in these other churches, they are taught collectivism. the church/government is responsible for charity, for the disposition of the soul, for the behavior of the people. the church not only feeds the spiritual needs of the people, but rules what they do, what they eat, where they go, how they behave.  they are socialist institutions responsible for handing out charity collected from other members.  ...we could probably add mormons to that too....although for some reason they seem to usually be more politically conservative.  maybe because they have suffered the consequences of government misconduct...

for many of us, our earliest social experiences are in our religious organizations.  if your organization is basically a socialist organization, it's not hard to see how that might carry on in your later thinking.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2012, 08:53:10 PM »

 ...we could probably add mormons to that too....although for some reason they seem to usually be more politically conservative.  maybe because they have suffered the consequences of government misconduct...


In what sense? The Utah war where the Government had to step in because they Massacred 120 men woman and children at Mountain Meadow? The Government stepping in because of "Blood atonement" Practices? Stepping in because some sects force underage girls into sexual relationships with much older men? 
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« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2012, 09:02:54 PM »

Kathy, as a southern baptist the independance of the individual believer to understand scripture as led by the Holy Spirit is the core belief of the of the southern baptist convention and the principle extends in every detail of church administration from the autonomy of the local congregation right up to affiliation with the convention itself. I guess I had no choice in the matter then LOL. Just as in matters of theology I hold my own and other's individual sovereignity to be most precious and dear and worth facing all the torment's of hell to preserve. This is why the obamanation in the white house must go and we so desperately need to restore the Republic to it's foundation principles.
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« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2012, 12:00:05 AM »

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In what sense? The Utah war where the Government had to step in because they Massacred 120 men woman and children at Mountain Meadow? The Government stepping in because of "Blood atonement" Practices? Stepping in because some sects force underage girls into sexual relationships with much older men?

no, making it a condition of acceptance into the US that they give up a religious practice, polygamy.  i'll give you that the Mormons have done some bad things in the past.  so have a lot of other groups.  how far back do we go to hold the current people accountable for the long past?

it's like reparations for slavery.  probably not one of us who couldn't find kin held slave by someone if we could go far enough back.  at some point, get over it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2012, 12:16:55 AM »

Get ready for another four years with OBAMA ,VP pretty boy doesn't fit.....big mistake for Romney .He'll go down the drain...sorry get ready for 2016 maybe.....
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bluegrass
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« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2012, 06:17:30 AM »


it's like reparations for slavery.  probably not one of us who couldn't find kin held slave by someone if we could go far enough back.  at some point, get over it.

Many of us are descendant from poor Immigrants and Quakers so there are probably plenty around who's family tree does not lead to slave holdings. The majority of Immigrants into this country came right about the time and after Slavery ended.
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« Reply #75 on: August 17, 2012, 06:31:23 AM »

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In what sense? The Utah war where the Government had to step in because they Massacred 120 men woman and children at Mountain Meadow? The Government stepping in because of "Blood atonement" Practices? Stepping in because some sects force underage girls into sexual relationships with much older men?

no, making it a condition of acceptance into the US that they give up a religious practice, polygamy. 

I can tell you the real reason the church has given up Polygamy and it has nothing to do with the Government. Their Profit Joseph Smith led the Mormons out of Sharon VT and into NY where he translated the the gold tablets into the Book of Mormon. His wife and followers at that time caught him with another woman and he wrote polygamy into the book of Mormon as the will of God. That is written into church history and it is why the Main LDS church quit practicing and broke into sects. 

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« Reply #76 on: August 17, 2012, 10:04:02 AM »

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Get ready for another four years with OBAMA ,VP pretty boy doesn't fit.....big mistake for Romney .He'll go down the drain...sorry get ready for 2016 maybe.....

bummer  Cry  guess we should quit now.  i had such high hopes....

blue, i was talking about being able to trace slavery of our ancestors though all of history.  how many of our kin from europe might have been slaves of the romans?  my family didn't come here until after slavery was well over.  i don't owe anyone anything.  neither does anyone else.  if folks want to wallow in the past, they should be left to it.

i'm not a big mormon fan.  i have my own history with some of them and it's not pleasant.  that said...given what we are up against in this country right now, it may be that romney is a happy choice. 
he has the business background to grasp the budgeting problems.  he has the reorganization background to understand how to fix things. neither he, nor ryan, care if they are loved and that might be the most important thing.

romney was not my choice, but he just showed me the most important ability for a leader.  identify and hire the best people for the job ahead.  no leader can know or do anything.  they can find people who do know stuff. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #77 on: August 17, 2012, 11:31:14 AM »

Quote from: kathyp on August 16, 2012, 08:45:34 PM
 ...we could probably add mormons to that too....although for some reason they seem to usually be more politically conservative.  maybe because they have suffered the consequences of government misconduct...

Quote from: Bluegrass
In what sense? The Utah war where the Government had to step in because they Massacred 120 men woman and children at Mountain Meadow? The Government stepping in because of "Blood atonement" Practices? Stepping in because some sects force underage girls into sexual relationships with much older men?  


No, as one of the most tortured religious groups ever in the ""FREE??"" US of A.


""As the Latter-day Saints fled Missouri during the winter of 1838–1839, having been threatened by the governor of that state with extermination, they crossed into Illinois and settled in a swampy area along the Mississippi River that they named Nauvoo""


http://www.lds.org/gospellibrary/pioneer/02_Nauvoo.html
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #78 on: August 17, 2012, 12:53:28 PM »

I don't see either candidate as a change from anything. We can keep a lame duck Obama for 4 more years and not pay his Presidential pension on top of Romney's salary. That is about the best budget cut I see in this election. Put Romney in and he will likely cost us trillions in his first two years just like Obama did.

He wants to start by getting rid of a piece of legislation that cost millions to draft and implement over the course of nearly a year. He either wants to do nothing as far as replacement goes and just let the Healthcare industry go belly up, or he wants to draft something new and spend all that money over again... we can't be sure because he hasn't really outlined any plan on that.
And he wants to do all that because the public have been told that this piece of legislation is going to cost them big time... But it hasn't been implemented yet so how do they know what it will cost? I work in healthcare and our hospital has been working for over a year to get so that they are in compliance with the law when it's provisions start taking effect... It has cost us millions of dollars in preparation. Other hospitals are also prepping and spending the same money.  So all that money will be thrown out as well because they prepped for something that didn't happen. 
You have to implement the healthcare law to see if it is good?Huh You have been listening to Nancy. rolleyes Many intelligent people have studied that healthcare law and know it is a disaster waiting to happen. There is an old saying don't throw GOOD money after BAD. The money that you speak of is wasted already. If the thing had been designed to actually help with healthcare it might be different but it was set up so the government can control all of our lives not just our health. It also adds a bunch of new taxes to everyone. The Supreme Court ruled that it is a tax.
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« Reply #79 on: August 17, 2012, 02:12:44 PM »

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You have to implement the healthcare law to see if it is good? You have been listening to Nancy.
LOL, this is what YOUR candidate did long before Obama came along!

Quote
Many intelligent people have studied that healthcare law and know it is a disaster waiting to happen.
Let’s have some names to back this assertion up

Quote
it was set up so the government can control all of our lives not just our health.
Get us a page number of the Law that says “ye shall control the people’s lives, not just their health”.

Quote
It also adds a bunch of new taxes to everyone.
OK, I’ll grant you that one
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