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Author Topic: VP Pick  (Read 24733 times)
bluegrass
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« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2012, 07:21:20 PM »

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Going back isn't Replacement. Romney and Ryan need to get on the same page or they will have big problems.

it's not about the page.  it's about the book.  it's a big one and i don't think you quite have the plot yet.   Wink

I get the plot just fine. You are Conservative and settling for a fairly liberal Candidate in hopes of winning. I am fairly liberal and am completely comfortable with a possible Romney Administration because I know how liberal he is.

You write off selling out your "values" for a more Liberal candidate chocking up his record as geographical... So what happens next time around when the nominee is still way left of you, and the time after that? At what point do you stop and realize you have been bamboozled by the leftward shift of the country?
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« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2012, 08:18:03 PM »

i am conservative.  i'm also pragmatic.  i realize that few are as conservative as i.  none of the more conservative candidates, save perry, really did anything for me.

while romney is more liberal, and i don't chalk that up to geography, he also has many of the skills that this country desperately needs right now.  he just added to that skill set by his VP pick. 

yes, i'd like a more conservative pick.  i don't get a say because by the time we have our primary, it's a done deal.  yes, i'll vote for romney and i won't have to have a barf bag in the other hand, as i did when i voted for mccain. 

the majority of the country in ideology is right of center and left of me.  that's ok.  it's pretty much always been that way. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2012, 10:52:05 PM »

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the majority of the country in ideology is right of center and left of me.  that's ok.
And we’re off to dreamland again…..    pink elephant pink elephant pink elephant
LOL, and the MAJORITY of the country voted for Obama. 
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« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2012, 11:02:09 PM »

Bush's transcripts are available at ......
Hillary Clinton's college transcripts are .......
Swing era band leader Glenn Miller...... (sing sing sing)
and the dean overlooked FDR’s grades but not his families’ large drug money fortune....
Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry was .... revealed to be a C student as well, earning four Ds his freshman year.
The Republican is just much much more honest and forth coming besides having a better sense of humor.  Now what was it you wanted to know Bee?
KingBee that was a very thorough response, thanks.  I guess that just leaves me with one more question…..
Where are KingBee's transcripts  grin
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kathyp
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« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2012, 12:17:41 AM »

you didn't read very carefully.  i said right of center in ideology.  they often don't vote their ideology.  blacks, for instance, tend to be socially conservative yet they vote democrat.  they do that because they don't know history and have believed the rewrite of it.  southern whites tend to be quite conservative, but vote democrat because this is the party of southern apartheid.  Catholics are social conservatives but they vote democrat because they don't get the difference between church charity and government charity.  same with the Jewish population.  both religions, having been governing bodies as well as religious bodies, have confused the two in our system. 

if you just talk to most of these people on issues, they should align with republicans more than democrats.  like much of the population, they don't bother to educate  themselves past the 6pm news and MSNBC.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2012, 07:38:30 AM »

I think you have made some Gross generalizations. Ethnicity and Religious affiliation is NOT data that is collected on Voter registration cards or on a ballot. That is media outlet hogwash and while pollsters can see leanings because they do collect that sort of information...The "Black Vote" doesn't all go for one side or the other, (Herman Cain, Mrs Rice) Just like the Majority of white's don't all vote one sided. A lot of the minority groups vote has to do with their upbringing. In Southern area's the black vote probably leans more heavily Democrat due to a culture of going against the establishment and in those areas the establishment is Largely Republican... The Jewish culture largely lives intercity and regardless of where they branch out to they stick with the party they grew up with.
I don't know where you are getting your Catholic leanings from, I have worked for Catholic Hospitals, I live in a Catholic area and most Catholics I know are Republican or Independent. Some of my closest friends are Catholic and they typically are in opposition of my views.

Now as far as being "uneducated". The 12 people interviewed in the video linked above doesn't reflect anything. I could have answered the majority of those questions at election time... If I wanted to make a positive video about Obama supporters I could just as easily pulled 12 people out of the 100s that go through a polling station on election day, asked the same questions and selected only people who could answer the questions, just like they did. I can pick a polling station this season and find plenty of Romney supporters who will not be able to tell me:
1. how many kids Romney has.
2. Which candidate has signed an assault weapons ban into law.
3. Which candidate was first to pass a universal healthcare law.
4. What is Romney's religious affiliation.
5. What is Obama's Religious affiliation. (I would get a whole bunch of wrong answers on that one) 
Etc.
It is hard to remain open minded and stay abreast of the issues in elections today. Every interest group on the planet has the right to bombard the airways with half truth's or blatant lies and if people hear it enough, they believe it. This is why the independent vote is so important. The Independents are the people who see through the Parisian carp and make their decisions based on their own research. The bases of the party's are the people who support one side or the other because they think they are watching a football game or something... It makes no difference what each side stands for... that is their team. This is how the Republican party became so fiscally irresponsible.

What it comes down to is that we each have our one vote... It is our choice to cast that vote the direction we think is best... Brainwashed by media or not... It is our vote and nobody has the right to question that vote.         
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bluegrass
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« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2012, 08:03:08 AM »

Oh I forgot one:
6. Which Candidate is campaigning against Government Bailouts, but asked for, and got, 600 million in Fed dollars to bailout the Olympic games?

If you really want to know why the Black population will not vote for Romney:
It can be found in the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith on page 269. This is the teaching Romney has spend his life in service of
Quote
 Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species.

In other writings he stated that the best thing to do with the Negro was to put them on ships back to Africa.

The minute Romney starts talking about his religion he is sunk; unlike Obama who's religious affiliation was made up last time, Romney's religious affiliation is very real. And 80% of the nation view the LDS church as a cult. Luckily nobody is asking about it, yet... The Obama camp will not touch it, they have more integrity than that... but somebody will bring it up before this election is over and we will see how well Romney can skirt around it.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 08:46:23 AM by bluegrass » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2012, 09:50:29 AM »

you didn't read very carefully.  i said right of center in ideology.  they often don't vote their ideology.  blacks, for instance, tend to be socially conservative yet they vote democrat.  they do that because they don't know history and have believed the rewrite of it.  southern whites tend to be quite conservative, but vote democrat because this is the party of southern apartheid.  Catholics are social conservatives but they vote democrat because they don't get the difference between church charity and government charity.  same with the Jewish population.  both religions, having been governing bodies as well as religious bodies, have confused the two in our system. 

if you just talk to most of these people on issues, they should align with republicans more than democrats.  like much of the population, they don't bother to educate  themselves past the 6pm news and MSNBC.

Kathy, I'm as strong a conservative, if not more so, than you but I do have to weigh in on these generalizations. Not that you're wrong as the groups you mention, save the southern whites, do historically vote en masse as you say. I know I can speak directly to the southern white as I am a seventh generation Alabamian by birth and my pure highland Scot ancestry makes me as white as they come.
If you were speaking to 20 years ago you would be correct to say that many southern whites remained yellow dog democrats but thanks to a fellow southern white in the form of William Jefferson Clinton the complete and full transition to Republicanism, first began by Ronaldus Magnus in 1980, was completed. The midterm shift in 1994 was far deeper than just a party switch. My own grandparents were of the yellow dog stripe. Yet my own father was the first of my family to become active in the ways of the republican party as early as the election of 1976. My own mother, to my chagrin, proudly makes the claim that her first vote in the state state of Alabama was a vote against George C. Wallace. Now this shift to the dark side way back in the dark days of the southern republican party was not as many would have you believe as support for southern apartheid or Jim Crow but the total polar opposite as my parents and others knew that the ways of the old south were either morally wrong or economically damaging to the region and that the true party of racism holding back the south was in fact the democratic party of old.
Sad to say but ultimately the call to switch was not made from the moral high ground of racial inequality fomented by the party of George Wallace but instead based purely upon the self serving interests of the pocketbook in the form of Bill Clinton's tax increases. Like you us southern republicans are pragmatists and we welcomed these new acolytes with open arms but all the while keeping a very wary eye on them. It's been nearly twenty years now but slowly but surely the weeding process has molded this conversion process by eliminating the weak and raising up the strong all the while knowing that it is the next generation raised up in the ways of the light that are the future. In short the yellow dogs have died off, the blue dogs were finally converted and will eventually be let out to pasture. If you take a look at the next generation, and us southerners measure time in generations, you can already see this happening.
Well I had hoped to address the other groups but I am out of time. Maybe this evening when I have more time I can sit down and ramble on some more.
In the meantime do a google search for the background history of the election of Alabama's first republican governor since reconstruction, Guy Hunt, in 1987. You won't find that the republican Guy Hunt, a small town primitive baptist preacher, led a massive grand sweep for the republican party but instead you will find that the democratic party got Mr Hunt elected. Two names you need to research, the republican cum democorat Charlie Graddick and the party faithful and Wallace protege Bill Baxley. If you follow that study to it's sad conclusion you will see that Alabama politics as played by the democratic side is a knife fight of the worst sort.
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« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2012, 11:03:57 AM »

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1112/religion-vote-2008-election

http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/research/published/atlas_2008.pdf

Quote
The "Black Vote" doesn't all go for one side or the other


please point out the word all in my post.

Quote
n Southern area's the black vote probably leans more heavily Democrat due to a culture of going against the establishment and in those areas the establishment is Largely Republican


wrong.  they lean democrat because they have bought into the "we'll help you" and the rewrite of history.  tell a lie often enough....

Quote
I don't know where you are getting your Catholic leanings from, I have worked for Catholic Hospitals, I live in a Catholic area and most Catholics I know are Republican or Independent. Some of my closest friends are Catholic and they typically are in opposition of my views.


of course they are in opposition to your views.  they are ideologically conservative...but that's not how they tend to vote.

http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-the-Faithful-Voted.aspx

David, i'll give you that since you are from the south.  Wink  i do see some changes with the elections of republican governors and an influx of industry into the south.  hard to argue against success.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2012, 11:30:38 AM »

The pew research article you sourced has a graph about halfway down the page; It shows weekly attending White Catholics leaning heavily Republican. Why they even poll non-attending "Catholics" I have no idea.. probably because people when asked about religion don't like to say they are unaffiliated so they throw out the name that comes to mind first..CATHOLIC. Yeah that group leans Democrat... But if we count that group as Catholic than I am a freaken Mennonite.. even though I haven't been to a Mennonite church in 25 years.

So like I said; you made some gross generalization.   
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« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2012, 11:51:28 AM »


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The "Black Vote" doesn't all go for one side or the other

please point out the word all in my post.


blacks, for instance, tend to be socially conservative yet they vote democrat

You used the word "they" implying them as a group. You didn't say they tend too, or they lean... you said they.

As far as the re-write of history... I guess you are referring to Lincoln being a Republican, Nixon a Republican Bull Connor a Democrat etc.
The Parties have changed greatly since then. There hasn't been any re-writing of history. You can google any of those people and see what party they were affiliated with, and what they did for the black community... North Korea re-writes history... That is not what has happened here.

Like I said before; our vote is an individual choice and we have the right to cast how we want. How you feel about the way any "group" votes, or why "they" vote that way doesn't advance your argument at all... because it is their vote, they can do what they like with it. "They" earned that vote with sweat and blood.

  
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« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2012, 12:27:34 PM »

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The Parties have changed greatly since then.

the only way they have changed is that the democrats discovered they needed the minority vote..with Kennedy and then Johnson,  they started to promise them "stuff".  Kennedy voted against civil rights legislation but because daddy had to buy the first election he knew he needed the black vote to get the 2nd.  + i do think he had a bit of a change of heart after talking with MLK (a republican).     it was the republicans who consistently voted for civil rights legislation.  it was a republican president, Ike,  who first proposed it. 

so yes, there have been changes.  democrats found out that if you make a population dependent, and you promise them more crap, you can keep them voting for you.  that is recent history for someone my age.   grin

Quote
and what they did for the black community

yes...what they did for them....or maybe what they did TO them.


Quote
Like I said before; our vote is an individual choice and we have the right to cast how we want. How you feel about the way any "group" votes, or why "they" vote that way doesn't advance your argument at all... because it is their vote, they can do what they like with it. "They" earned that vote with sweat and blood.

i believe it was an observation, but whatever....you are getting into the weeds and i'm not sure i'm getting your point.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2012, 12:32:25 PM »

BTW...sorry i left out the word tend, but if this is accurate, it was not really required, was it?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15297.html
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2012, 12:41:27 PM »



 
Quote
What it comes down to is that we each have our one vote... It is our choice to cast that vote the direction we think is best... Brainwashed by media or not... It is our vote and nobody has the right to question that vote. 
This is the scary but true part.  As long as your legal to vote, you get to vote.  Regardless of whether your ideology is grounded in truth or facts or media manipulation or out and out lies.  The problem is many people don't have time or care to determine what is true or not.  In fact, "their" truth is whatever supports their ideology and desires.


In another thread Iddee worte the following...
Quote
In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the
University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the
Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: "A democracy is always
temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent
form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until
the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous
gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority
always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from
the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally
collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a
dictatorship."

The politicians know this.  So this is how they play the game.  On both sides of the aisle.  Promise them stuff and buy their vote.  The media knows this too.  Scare the pudding out of the people by saying the other party will take away your stuff.  Or fill their heads with dirty fluff about the other party so the people won't dwell on the stuff that matters - like jobs, leadership, REAL healthcare reform, tort reform, stopping the flow of illegals, etc.

The democrats are the party of promising benefits for votes, and the party of loose fiscal policy!  Unfortunately, many politicians in the GOP look exactly like democrats.  Unfortunately Tylers description is playing out right before our eyes and there doesn't seem to be much we can do about it.
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« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2012, 12:54:51 PM »

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Unfortunately, many politicians in the GOP look exactly like democrats.

yup and a good many of them need to go home along with the dems.  a clean house is a happy house  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2012, 01:15:23 PM »

The Obama camp will not touch it, they have more integrity than that...

HA HA thanks for the laugh I spit food on my computer with that one

LOL integrity and obama

LOL

Keith
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« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2012, 01:27:07 PM »

A wise dude once said...

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville


“Americans are so enamored of equality, they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

“Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
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bluegrass
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« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2012, 01:59:45 PM »

My take on this election is this.
There are going to be a lot of Conservatives who will be very disappointed if Romney looses, and a lot who will be very disappointed if he wins.

He is talking a talk that doesn't match his past actions. You don't trust a thief with your valuables, even if they tell you they are anti stealing.
There is nothing fiscally conservative about the guy, his views on Healthcare reform also match Obama's, only he tries and makes an argument that they are different. He talks about cutting taxes, but raised the heck out of them in MA and called it fees. When you milk legal gun owners for 10 million dollars by raising the cost of a license to own that gun... that is a tax, not a fee. A fee covers filing and such... that money was diverted to the general fund. That is a tax.

I love this video:
 
Romney- I Brought In Record Federal Dollars for the Olympics


And his part in this one:
John McCain on the 2002 Winter Olympics


Yes he has the skills to get us out of our financial ditch, he saved MA, he Saved the Olympics. He closed huge budget gaps. He did that by collecting tax dollars from every source he could... So how exactly is he going to use that experience to pull the country out of the rut we are in? His experience is limited to taxing gaps closed. 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 02:12:00 PM by bluegrass » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2012, 02:03:39 PM »

The Obama camp will not touch it, they have more integrity than that...

HA HA thanks for the laugh I spit food on my computer with that one

LOL integrity and obama

LOL

Keith
The day you hear Obama camp mention his religion in an ad... you send me a PM Wink
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« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2012, 02:08:45 PM »

bluegrass, most of us who are conservative have already stipulated that he's not as conservative as we'd like.  should we then vote for obama?  many made the mistake of not voting for mccain, and i understand that.  they realize now that even a bad mccain would have (probably) been better than what we go.  i don't think you'll see that mistake again.

i also don't think you'll see so many turn out for obama again.  he's managed to disappoint almost every segment of his constituency except illegals and gays.  could be wrong, but i don't think there are enough of either voting to make up the difference.  my liberal black friends are very disappointed and in part because of obama pandering to the gay and illegal vote.  

and no, i'm not making a mistake when i talk about the illegal vote.  there is a reason the justice dept is trying to block every voter id check law.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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