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Author Topic: Farm Bill  (Read 1271 times)
BlueBee
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« on: July 27, 2012, 12:00:50 AM »

So what is your opinion of the 2012 Farm Bill?  Y'all still have to eat don't you?  Is this tax dollars well spent or not?
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nella
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 07:28:40 AM »

Why is there a farm bill and what dose it accomplish?
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iddee
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 08:31:29 AM »

You are going to pay for food, whether at the store or in taxes.

With the farm bill, you pay with taxes. ""no choice""

Without the farm bill, you pay at the store. ""you choose""

Which do you prefer?
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 09:35:30 AM »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-senate-farm-bill-in-one-graph/2012/06/14/gJQAdAx4cV_blog.html

probably don't need to say more....except that most people don't realize this, and they should.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 11:36:12 AM »

They should scrap the whole thing. Just a bunch of handouts. How did we ever survive before the farm bill?  shocked
Jim
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Keith13
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 03:21:13 PM »

I like some aspects of the farm bill though most have nothing to do with farms.

As a duck hunter I strongly agree with the CRP program. It pays farmers not to farm marginal land, and in some cases to pull acreage out of crop production and return it to pre-cleared status.

The pothole region of America supports the production of waterfowl. While yes Canada is a major breeding area for waterfowl the contribution of American farmers through CRP in the breadbasket area of America contributes ~40% of new hatchling waterfowl numbers per year.

Some will say it is a handout which it is, but in reality the govt payout is roughly 30% of what the farmer would get if he farmed the land.

Also a lot of hollywood left and other multimillionaires (namely Ted Turner) abuse the system by buying large tracts of land that have never been farmed and claim the land under CRP making millions per year. IMO there should be a cap

So to say the least CRP has its faults but in my opinion is a good program

Keith
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ApalacheeRiverFarms
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 05:37:02 PM »

Most?  Calling it a farm bill just gives ignorant people something to complain about farmers getting too many subsidies when in fact the farm bill is not much more than the hide the amount we spend on food stamps bill. people learn how to work the system and tell everyone they know how to cheat it. no work requirements is insanity... Put them to work on the us infrastructure... And pay them with food stamps.
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kingbee
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2012, 02:23:29 AM »

... Put them to work on the us infrastructure... And pay them with food stamps.

How's about putting em to work on the US's infrastructure and feeding em out of a surplus GI Field Kitchen?  Some could learn to paint, cut grass, fill pot holes, dig ditches, and cook.  Others could learn how peel taters and scrub pots.  Everyone would soon be looking for a better line of work.
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ApalacheeRiverFarms
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 11:41:23 PM »

Exactly... Give them an incentive to go find a better job.
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 06:47:12 AM »

Aaahh yes,the government knows best for the farmers. Just ask the farmers in the Central Valley of California where the irrigation was shut off by the leftists.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 09:56:24 AM »

In the case of the San Joaquin central valley, YES the government knows a whole lot more than the farmers and beeks.  The farmers kept on pumping water like there was no tomorrow.  Kind of like our Conservative friends think you can pump oil forever.  Well, it certainly doesn’t work that way with aquifers.  When an aquifer is overdrawn, the soils in the system compact under the weight of the land above and can NEVER hold the amount of water it held in the first place.  It’s called subsidence and parts of the San Joaquin Valley have subsided 29 feet! 

This is a case where people are just trying to make a living and I can’t blame them for that.  However in the process they are destroying the land for future generations.  That is when it’s the government responsibility to step in and protect the country (ok land) in my opinion. 

Would you rather have the aquifer permanently destroyed forever?  That is what would happen if there’s not some regulation of the capitalism from time to time.
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 10:25:21 AM »

Quote
However in the process they are destroying the land for future generations.

what generations if there is no food?  do you know how much of our food comes from CA?  does the land belong to the government?  no.  the government has no right to step  in.  they claim a right to the water and to protection, but where does this right come from?  it is not constitutional.  they have expanded their claim to the water in the last couple of years.  again, by what right. 

Quote
The farmers kept on pumping water like there was no tomorrow

had nothing to do with that.  they were protecting a friggin fish.  then they brought in truck loads of food for the farm workers because they were out of work and going hungry.  when they opened the trucks, the crates of produce were labeled CHINA. i don't give a darn if the pump the aquifer dry.  when that happens they'll have to move on.  in the mean time, how do you justify importing food and "saving the land for future generations"?  what the heck are future generations going to do with it?  apparently not farm!


so the government claims your water rights, your farming rights, controls your health care, and meddles in your housing.  you are not bothered by that?
 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 11:14:53 AM »

The water was diverted to flow to the delta for a fish that was not indigenous to that area. It was just taken away from the farmers,
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indypartridge
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2012, 11:41:48 AM »

Notice on the chart Kathy linked, that Crop Insurance is the 2nd biggest piece of the pie.

Ever wonder how/why genetically-engineered seed treated with neonicotinoids became so dominate in such a short time? The answer is Crop Insurance. Bayer & Monsanto lobbied extensively so that crop insurance premiums would be significantly lower for farmers using GE-neonic-treated seed, and following "recommended" practices. This made it a no-brainer for farmers as to which corn seed to plant.
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Boom Buzz
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2012, 12:24:25 PM »

As a laissez faire conservative I am in favor of a significantly reduced farm bill though I wouldn't necessarily do away with it completely.  My concerns lie with the fact that I have a strong distrust of government and politicians in general.  And I believe there is so much bloat, corruption and abuse of these kinds of systems that the true benefits to our society are overshadowed.  What started out as a seemingly good idea and continues to be billed as necessary to ensure the steady stream of a good food supply has turned into the proverbial government waste, inefficiencies and side deals(ie., monsanto).    drowning

$100 billion per year???  Could the true benefit to society through crop insurance, limited subsidies and food stamps be accomplished on a fraction of that, say $20 billion per year?   chop chop   And let free market forces work.  That's $80 billion per year less in annual deficit spending.  Hey a billion here and there and it starts to add up.  Bottom line, IMO, the government is just too intrusive in too many areas, and this is one of them...
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kingbee
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2012, 05:10:07 PM »

... So what is your opinion of the 2012 Farm Bill?  Is this tax dollars well spent or not?

Why is there a farm bill and what dose it accomplish?

... Crop Insurance is the 2nd biggest piece of the pie... why [did] genetically-engineered seed treated with neonicotinoids became so dominate in such a short time? The answer is Crop Insurance... Bayer & Monsanto lobbied extensively so that crop insurance premiums would be significantly lower for farmers using GE-neonic-treated seed, and following "recommended" practices...

About 90 cents of every Farm Bill dollar is currently spent on FOOD.... stamps.  The Farm Bill is a gigantic welfare boon boggle and America's farmers are a long long way from being its largest beneficiary.  There are currently more employees at the US Department of Agriculture than there are farmers.  I would list farmers at best third behind food stamp recipients and government bureaucrats.

If GMO seeds gets a farmer (and yes the tax payer) a lower crop insurance premium I see that as a huge positive for Genetic Engineered Crops.  Life insurance policies don’t cover acts of war, sky diving, stockcar racing, or other actions that tempt fate or invite disaster.  Why should crop insurance?  The same benefits came to farmers planting hybrid seeds starting in 1923 with the introduction of hybrid corn, and you certainly can't save and replant hybrid seed corn.  

Hybrid corn seeds were first developed by one Henry Wallace in 1923.  Farmers can't save and replant hybrid corn seeds from year to year without risking a complete crop failure, not a good use of "best farming practice's in my opinion.  Wallace's hybrid corn proved so successful that by 1930 50% of all the corn planted was hybrid corn and by the 40s that number had grown to 90%.

If your thinking about looking Henry Wallace up in Michael Moore's "Directory of Dangerous Right Wing Extremist" your howling up the wrong tree.  Henry Wallace turned his commercial hybrid seed corn success into two terms as Vice-President in FDR's New Deal.  It was Wallace who introduced the idea of crop insurance.  Wallace also ran for President against FDR's 4th Vice-President Harry Truman in 1948.  Wallace ran on the Progressive Party ticket and some of his platform included thanking the USSR for taking Eastern Europe off our hands.  At any rate Henry Wallace proved to radical for most of the Democrats and all but a handfull of Republicans.  He finished 4th behind Dixiecrat nominee Strum Thurman of South Carolina but ahead of the Trotski Communist or Socialist Party nominee Norman Thomas.  
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 02:07:02 PM by kingbee » Logged
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