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Author Topic: WHEN?  (Read 3717 times)
BlueBee
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« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2012, 06:02:13 PM »

Liberals?  What liberals?

I don’t know, I saw 2, maybe 3, things in the OP that were disconcerting, but most were just the usual far right conspiracy fear mongering.  Fear seems to drive our Republican friends as Michael Moore pointed out.  The rest of us (the majority of the population) will probably judge him in light of the economic performance of the country.  Sadly, that hasn’t been very good, but we also have to cut him some slack because George Bush and his Congress destroyed the economy.  Business cycles don’t recover overnight.  

Oh, and by the way, +3 for Frameshift.  
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buzzbee
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« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2012, 06:10:58 PM »

Do you remember 9/11? It was a strike at the very heart of the financial system of the free world. Barak Obama has not had to deal with a crisis of near the implications that was laid at W's feet in his first year in office. How soon we forget this little tid bit of history. This is a disaster had it happened under this administration most likely would have put us under martial law.And the Constitution burned and wjhat is left of our sovereignty would have been turned over to the UN.  Thank God it happened before Obama.
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iddee
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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2012, 06:34:59 PM »

If you could only see the chariot you are riding in just went off a 3000 foot cliff, you would be scared, too. Just be sure you don't take your blindfold off and the ride down will be smooth to the end.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
BlueBee
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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2012, 08:53:09 PM »

You mean kind of like Space Mountain at Disney World?
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2012, 09:23:11 PM »

Do you remember 9/11? It was a strike at the very heart of the financial system of the free world. Barak Obama has not had to deal with a crisis of near the implications that was laid at W's feet in his first year in office.

The attack of 9/11 happened when Bush was President and I give him credit for organizing an international alliance against the Taliban.  But the victory over bin Laden and his merry band was won by Obama.   Bush GAVE UP looking for bin Laden and started a new phony war in Iraq instead.  It was Obama who ended the war in Iraq and ordered the death of bin Laden.  Did you hear the Army Chief of Staff last week commenting on the fact that it was Obama who made the hard (and politically risky) decision to kill bin Laden?   And the rest of al Qaeda leadership has been systematically dismembered by drone strikes and black ops.  Yeah Obama!

What people will remember as they vote this November is that bin Laden is dead and General Motors is alive and well.   If Bush or Romney had been President during the last 3.5 years,  it would be GM that had gone to it's final rest and bin Laden would still be plotting the death of more Americans.
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kathyp
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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2012, 11:03:57 PM »

Quote
I don’t know, I saw 2, maybe 3, things in the OP that were disconcerting, but most were just the usual far right conspiracy fear mongering.  Fear seems to drive our Republican friends as Michael Moore pointed out.  The rest of us (the majority of the population) will probably judge him in light of the economic performance of the country.  Sadly, that hasn’t been very good, but we also have to cut him some slack because George Bush and his Congress destroyed the economy.  Business cycles don’t recover overnight.

it would be really cool if you ever backed up anything you say with some facts.

bravo obama.  he got UBL.  feel better?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
sterling
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« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2012, 02:04:28 PM »

Quote
I don’t know, I saw 2, maybe 3, things in the OP that were disconcerting, but most were just the usual far right conspiracy fear mongering.  Fear seems to drive our Republican friends as Michael Moore pointed out.  The rest of us (the majority of the population) will probably judge him in light of the economic performance of the country.  Sadly, that hasn’t been very good, but we also have to cut him some slack because George Bush and his Congress destroyed the economy.  Business cycles don’t recover overnight.

it would be really cool if you ever backed up anything you say with some facts.

bravo obama.  he got UBL.  feel better?
Liberals don't need facts. Just tell a lie and repeat it often. There are enough uninformed people out there who will fall for it.

BTW What about Obama Motors. Did you see where they are going to help sponsor a British soccer team to the tune of 600 million dollars? They still owe the tax payers for the bailout.
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heus
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« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2012, 03:24:17 PM »

There is a fanstastic book out there called "The Amateur." Look it up.
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kathyp
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« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2012, 04:24:09 PM »

there's more

http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2012/2012-chevrolet-volt-becomes-centerpiece-of-smart-community.html

your tax dollars at work!!

Quote
There is a fanstastic book out there called "The Amateur." Look it up.


have heard about it, but not read it.  new david limbaugh book out that is supposed to be good also.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
buzzbee
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« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2012, 05:40:52 PM »

And our government and UAW are owners in GM. We will be lucky to see our money back. I guess bailouts are okay as long as it is something you want bailed out.Was GM not a big greedy business? Were they not in the financing (a fancy word for BANKING) industry?  It only matteres who is getting the bailout.

Our Government fired a sitting director of a privately owned business. That by law should only be done by the board os directors. But heck,it's okay,Obama did it. Dangerous precedent.
Tarp money was repaid,GM has not.
From a 8-1-12 NY times article:
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/general_motors_corporation/index.html
Because American taxpayers still own a 26 percent stake in G.M., the company is finding it tough to change its image as “Government Motors.” Analysts say that investors are still skittish about G.M. because its decades-long decline is still fresh in their minds. 
UAW got 17.5 percent
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7681838&page=1
People that paid money(you know,investors,capitalists) were screwed out of their stocks.Told they were no longer stockholders of GM.
Again,dangerous precedent.  And we wonder why the so called"rich" are wary about investing and providing jobs while this administration is in office.
Oh wait,not all of us wonder,some of us get it.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2012, 05:47:11 PM »

And I have to wonder the true cost to the taxpayer as the money was borrowed to bail them out.The stock is at 16 dollars We needed 55 to break even,Swell deal.
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Wits End
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« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2012, 06:08:04 PM »

YEEEEEEHAAAAW! Stick a fork in me I'm done! I wish I had some duct tape to keep my head from exploding after reading all that. I am a staunch conservative and I don't apologize for that. I work hard out in the heat all day and do farm chores in the evening. I don't have much but I thank God for every bit of it. I don't care if my neighbor has a 6, 9 or 12 digit salary, if he earned it legally it's his to do with as he pleases. If he got it by stealing it from someone else then he needed it worse than I did. I don't covet anyones life because I've got enough of my own problems.
Miss Kathyp, I wish I knew you personally. You sound like my kind of friend.
Yall keep loving one another out there and take care of your girls!

PS Eat more chicken!
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Jeff and Kellie Houston
Wits End Blueberry and Bee Farm
Greenwood Mississippi
kingbee
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« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2012, 01:15:00 AM »

 Yea, The President said he was picking them to win next years NCAA Sweet 16 Tournament.  grin laugh cheesy
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kingbee
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« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2012, 01:21:57 AM »

... Was GM not a big greedy business? Were they not in the financing (a fancy word for BANKING) industry?...

YES, GMAC or General Motors Acceptance Coroperation a.k.a. Give Me A Check.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2012, 08:47:04 AM »

The majority stake of GMAC was sold to Cerberus hedge fund in 2006 after the Wall Streeters downgraded GM debt to junk status and forced the company to sell their most profitable asset to raise cash.  Our good buddy, and former VP, Dan Quayle was the chairman of Cerberus global investments.

So when Bush bailed out the bankers, he also bailed out the billionaires at Cerberus and former VP Quayle since GMAC was a “financial institution”.  Do you think there might have been some insider arm twisting of Bush Jr from Bush Sr?  Cerberus also owned Chrysler at the time.  So the Cerberus billionaires got a double bailout.  Welfare for the super rich.

FYI…GMAC no longer exists.  It’s now called Alley Financial.  The home mortgage arm of Alley just recently filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection this summer after writing off 22 billion in bad mortgages.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2012, 08:48:51 AM »

Quote
People that paid money(you know,investors,capitalists) were screwed out of their stocks.Told they were no longer stockholders of GM.
Again,dangerous precedent.

Sorry, but this is the way bankruptcy law is written and has been enacted for decades.  The stock holders in a public company are the low man on the totem pole.  They are often wiped out in any bankruptcy  (think Kodak in recent times).  Bond holders have the first priority to company assets, stock holders have last priority and usually get wiped out.   Absolutely nothing new there and no new precedents were set in that regards.   Stock market investors (aka gamblers) have been getting wiped out for decades by the bankruptcy laws. 
 
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/krantz/story/2012-03-08/kodak-products-bankruptcy/53420198/1
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kathyp
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« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2012, 10:35:34 AM »

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Sorry, but this is the way bankruptcy law is written and has been enacted for decades.  The stock holders in a public company are the low man on the totem pole.

with both GM and Solyndra, the government stepped in and screwed the investors.  it was not done by law.  it was done by Federal fiat.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
FRAMEshift
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« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2012, 11:25:19 AM »

At least in the case of GM, the government tried to cut a deal to avoid bankruptcy in exchange for the bond holders agreeing to a large loss.  The bondholders would not agree.  They forced the bankruptcy and lost everything anyway.  The difference was the the GM workers were idled for a couple of months. 
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kathyp
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« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2012, 01:54:57 PM »

http://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-auto-bailout-and-the-rule-of-law

interesting article on the bailout and government interference.

it is interesting that the words "government tried to cut a deal" don't ring any alarm bells with you.  by what right did the government become involved. no right, but a desire to protect the union from renegotiating it's contracts.  that is the long and short of it.
they caused the majority of the problems and they got the protection.

http://www.thoughtsfromaconservativemom.com/tag/gm/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303768104577462650268680454.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
FRAMEshift
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« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2012, 03:01:49 PM »


it is interesting that the words "government tried to cut a deal" don't ring any alarm bells with you. 
When the private markets have FAILED to create an economy wherein people can feed and house their families, the government not only has a right but a duty to intervene and "cut deals".  I don't believe that government ownership of the means of production (socialism) is a workable system, but neither is unfettered capitalism.  If the government under Bush had regulated the mortgage markets and banks, Obama would not have been forced to take drastic action. 

Are you content to watch the country fall apart because of what you see as Constitutional principles?  I think what Obama did was well withing his Constitutional powers, but I would not hesitate to do what he did if that was the only way to stop the collapse of the US economy and nation.  Would you not do the same to save the nation?
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"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh
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