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Author Topic: Under Obama your 401k and IRA ist Kaput  (Read 3344 times)
kingbee
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« on: July 23, 2012, 10:06:22 PM »

After almost 40 years of hard work and self denial, Americans have managed to save or squirrel away ALMOST 9 Trillion Dollars in IRA and 401k accounts.  In only the past 3.5 years President Obama has managed to squander over 2/3 of that amount or 6 Trillion dollars in new government debt, green jobs stimulus, and bailouts for his cronies, this does not even count the President’s greens fees and Teller-Prompter rentals.  They could run billions more.

During the Bush Administration an argument raged over privatizing Social Security accounts with Republics generally favoring private or “Privatized” Social Security Accounts that would allow Americans to own outright their retirement accounts and be able to use their retirement money in almost anyway they wished, including willing it to their heirs.

On the other hand the Democrat Party generally opposed individual or “Privatized” Social Security Accounts.  The reason for this partisan split is now becoming clear.  The Democrat Party was planning on  STEALING your already PRIVATE retirement funds, so why would they want more private accounts?  That would just create un-necessary work for the party of the working man. 

401(k) IRA Nationalization *** Quietly Moves Forward


We are speaking here of both government and private pensions, savings accounts, IRAs, 401k accounts, stock portfolios, and annuities.  This can be the only logical reason that the Democrat Party can give for opposing private Social Security Accounts, they want to nationalization, or steal your Pension, your 401k, your IRA etc. it would just be too much of an invasion of YOUR? privacy,  for a Democrat President and Congress to beat the hiding place of every last red cent out of you. 

The Affordable Health Care or Trojan Horse Tax Act slipped the 3.5% Sales Tax on the proceeds of every used and new private home sale into the Federal record.  This tax is set to go into effect in 2013 and will further decrease the value of every home in America at least another 3.5% or almost a 10% further loss.  No wonder former Speaker of the US House Nancy Pelosi wanted Obama Care passed before we knew what was in it.

Now Obama’s new stick it to the middle class tax, that seizes all public, & private pensions is awaiting passage in the House and Senate.  The re-election of the President will be the only signal that this Democrat President needs to deem this tax enacted.  This is what you SMALL business men and women get for making the poor President work so hard on your behalf to create your success for you!!  Shame on you!!
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 09:06:51 AM »

nationalizing the pensions/retirement accounts has been long talked about.  it's another source of ready cash for the government to spend...in the name of "protecting" your retirement....with another IOU.


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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
AllenF
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 08:41:56 PM »

Take everything we have, then make us dependent on them for everything.   Basically penalize us for trying to be self sufficient and successful in life. 

But the idea has been around for a while. 
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BlueBee
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 12:15:25 AM »

Oh yeah the Republicans had a brilliant idea for social security (retirement funds) in the 1990s, invest in the tech bubble.  How would that have turned out?  Anybody still remember Netscape?

As for Obama squandering 6 trillion, keep in mind that it is getting more and more expensive to buy things like fighter jets at 200 MILLION a pop.  You don’t like F-35 planes Kingbee?  Luckily we don’t have a nut job in office like Newt trying to spend trillions to build a moon base.   Where do they come up with their priorities huh 

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This can be the only logical reason that the Democrat Party can give for opposing private Social Security Accounts, they want to nationalization, or steal your Pension, your 401k, your IRA etc.
No, the reason the dems don’t want to privatize Social Security is because the Gamblers on Wall Street with make those accounts go to zero faster than you can say; Madoff.  Then what happens?  We would have to raise taxes and bailout social security along with the banks.  Dems aren’t in favor of bailouts; that’s the Republicans specialty.
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 10:35:55 AM »

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Oh yeah the Republicans had a brilliant idea for social security (retirement funds) in the 1990s, invest in the tech bubble. 

for most of us, to have had that money to invest on our own, would have worked out very well.  even putting it in time accounts in the bank would have given a nice return.  i know that the left has an aversion to trusting people to take care of their own lives....but i think we do a better job of it.

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As for Obama squandering 6 trillion, keep in mind that it is getting more and more expensive to buy things like fighter jets at 200 MILLION a pop.  You don’t like F-35 planes Kingbee?  Luckily we don’t have a nut job in office like Newt trying to spend trillions to build a moon base.   Where do they come up with their priorities

you do remember from prior conversations that one of the few jobs of the federal government is the defense of the nation? 

as for nut jobs...Kennedy built an entire space program in the middle of a crappy economy...and cut taxes!!  the better question:  where did all our big thinkers and risk takers go?  perhaps they are on food stamps and welfare having lost the will to innovate in this climate??  just a thought..........

or they are in Colorado  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BlueBee
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 01:00:37 PM »

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i know that the left has an aversion to trusting people to take care of their own lives....but i think we do a better job of it.
Not really, but did you ever observe that most people live beyond their means?  

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for most of us, to have had that money to invest on our own, would have worked out very well.
This is HIGHLY doubtful.  The bankers would have made out like bandits, but most individuals buy high and sell low.  If it’s not your job 24-7 to manage money, the odds of you making money over the long run is very slim.  It’s like most things in life, if you don’t have expertise at something you make a LOT of mistakes along the road.  Those mistakes are very costly to society when people gamble away their retirement.

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where did all our big thinkers and risk takers go?  perhaps they are on food stamps and welfare having lost the will to innovate in this climate??
Most of the real innovators in our history did not start out rich, they started out broke.  How many rich people can you list that were real innovators?  The poor indigents are the ones that come up with the big ideas; they also need to eat.
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 01:56:09 PM »

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Not really, but did you ever observe that most people live beyond their means?

sure, and why not?  there are no consequences.

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This is HIGHLY doubtful.  The bankers would have made out like bandits, but most individuals buy high and sell low.  If it’s not your job 24-7 to manage money, the odds of you making money over the long run is very slim.  It’s like most things in life, if you don’t have expertise at something you make a LOT of mistakes along the road.  Those mistakes are very costly to society when people gamble away their retirement.

1st, why is it not my job to manage my investments? if not my job, who's is it?  2nd, that's why we have companies that manage investments.  if you have a 401k, you are familiar with them.  if you have had a retirement investment for the last 20 years, it's not hard to see how your SSI and Medicare money could have been better managed and grown with private investment.

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Most of the real innovators in our history did not start out rich, they started out broke.  How many rich people can you list that were real innovators?  The poor indigents are the ones that come up with the big ideas; they also need to eat.

no kidding.  i think, folks, we have had a breakthrough!!!   grin  i do think you might have come to that by accident while missing my real point......
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
ApalacheeRiverFarms
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 05:15:28 PM »

how many innovators do we have on food stamps?  yeah... The innovators worked their butts off and made their own way, they didn't wait for the government to.
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ApalacheeRiverFarms
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 05:17:53 PM »

Trust the gov to manage your money?  Postal Service... no need to say more. they make you buy a box and then make it illegal for anyone but them to put anything in that box you purchased.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2012, 05:28:58 PM »

I can probably say with certainty that if I would have stuck 15 percent of every paycheck in the bank,I would have more and be able to heir on whats left than the deal Uncle Sam will have at retirement time.If my wife and I die in a car crash tomorrow,my 15 percent goes to Uncle Sam as well as part of my estate which they did not pay anything for,goes too.

Sad thing is,not only are a lot of people thinking they deserve entitlements they never invested a dime in,our government also thinks it is entitled to the fruits of my labor.
Using the logic of the market being a losing proposition, all the rich would probably be poor at this point.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2012, 07:02:17 PM »

How is putting money in the bank a good investment huh  Their interest rates are below the rate of inflation.  So if you put your 15 percent in the bank every paycheck, you lose at least a couple percent of your money every year.

As for the “rich” beating the market, no they don’t “beat” the market.  Nobody beats a random gambling game in the long run.  They make their money off stock GRANTS and option GRANTS and/or transaction fees if they’re in investment banking.  That’s what we call welfare for the super rich.

Stock and option grants are essentially taking the money for middle class investors (who don’t know any better) and putting their dollars in the pockets of the super rich.     
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2012, 07:52:24 PM »

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So if you put your 15 percent in the bank every paycheck, you lose at least a couple percent of your money every year.

right now, but over the course of the years you could have made safe investments through the bank and done quite well.  we had only a very little to save in the '70's, but that little ended up being the down payment on our first house.

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As for the “rich” beating the market, no they don’t “beat” the market.  Nobody beats a random gambling game in the long run.

there is risk in the market, but it is not a game of chance.  if it were, people would not invest in those 401K plans toward retirement.  if you are going to invest, you either hire an expert, or you get educated.  this doesn't remove all risk, but it makes the risk less.  i take it you never invested?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2012, 12:39:21 PM »

I didn't say it was a good investment. I said it would have been better than giving it to the government to invest wisely. I do not know if you noticed,but the federal government is beyond broke.
My local owned bank still manages a profit.
If I would have put the money in a can in the back yard,at least I would own the savings.The same can not be said for the Social Security investment.
That term Social Security investment is kinda oxymoronic isn't it?
Perhaps Social Security would still be solvent if the do gooders would not have so expanded the pool of people entitled to that money.
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kathyp
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2012, 03:03:52 PM »

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would not have so expanded the pool of people entitled to that money.

that's pretty much the key.  you do not need to have paid into the program, despite what many will tell you, to draw out.  if it was meant to keep granny from starving, it should have been left at that. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2012, 11:59:04 PM »

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there is risk in the market, but it is not a game of chance.  if it were, people would not invest in those 401K plans toward retirement.
OK Dorothy, it’s time to click your heels 3 times and wake up now……

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My local owned bank still manages a profit.
Right….and how are we sure of that?  That’s what the bankers tell us?  And what about marking to market their assets?  LOL.  Are they solvent then?  What is the credit rating of your local bank?  What is the credit rating of the US Government?  Banks fail all the time, the US Government has never defaulted. 
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kathyp
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2012, 12:24:34 AM »

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the US Government has never defaulted. 

this is a young country.  because a thing has never happened does not mean it will never happen.  watch what happens with the next round of QE.  even if the country doesn't default, it won't matter to much to the average citizen.  add to that the fact that europe has already gone over the edge even if they don't realize it yet, and those counties like china, who appeared to be doing really well, are now facing a slow down. 

now we face a grain shortage world wide...and i am predicting very bad times before us.  the government will not be able to support people and pay it's debt.  money will be printed and the value will go down even farther.  all those people now used to government support will suddenly find that the well has dried up.  those with money...or land, will be able to survive, but in the comfort to which most of us have become accustomed. 

i give us less than a year to a serious crash and depression.....world wide.  and the sad thing?  it didn't have to happen. those in power around the world did the same things that led to the great depression/made the great depression worse,  and are now facing the same result.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
buzzbee
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2012, 06:13:47 PM »

The Government has not defaulted because it has continued borrowing against our childrens and grandchildrens future to pay current debts. The banks do not have that option. They sell stocks which people willingly buy,as do most corporations. The last I knew,taxes were not willful purchase of stock in the US government. Try getting Americans to buy a bond anymore. That is a measure of confidence in Uncle Sam.
This house of cards is also on the precipice.
I don't know if you realize it,but for the first time in 70 years this nations credit rating has been reduced:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_government_credit-rating_downgrade,_2011
The federal government cannot spend other peoples money to generate prosperity.At some point it needs to be repaid.And this government can not even generate a one year budget without a deficit,let alone repay what is already on the books.
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AllenF
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2012, 06:23:01 PM »

That's for reminding me that my 6 year old is already 40 something thousand dollars in debt.   Or is it 50 something now?
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kingbee
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2012, 03:35:05 PM »

... the reason the dems don’t [didn't] want to privatize Social Security is because... Wall Street with make those accounts go to zero...

Didn't you mean that the Democrat Party and Barney Fife... (Sorry I meant to type Barney Frank) the Bank of American, AIG and Century 21 has already stolen the equity out of every family home in America.  

Remember Blue, the roof over their heads are most peoples' largest and most secure investment.  What did the Demorat Party, and Barny Frank's sub-Prime mortgages do to that investment?  They ate your investment to the ground, chewed it up and spat it out the other end, like a cut worm eats a tomato vine.   angry  

You can smear lipstick on a pig all day long.  However when the Sun goes down it still smells like a hog.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 05:12:04 PM by kingbee » Logged
BlueBee
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2012, 04:08:53 PM »

Kingbee, you make a good point.  People have lost a ton of home equity value in my area; it really is sad.  A lot of people have been completely wiped out when they had to sell, or got foreclosed on, for various reasons (health, job loss, ect).  I really wonder how all this is going to ripple through the economy and society in the years to come.  Where are these people/families going to live?  I know some people put all the blame on the individual for their circumstances, but tomorrow is hard to predict for any of us.  We could get run over by a bus at any moment; we don’t know the good lords plans in advance.  

This really should be an American problem as opposed to us vs them.  I think there is plenty of blame to go around:  Greenspan, Dems, and Republicans.  Honestly I don’t have a good solution in my bag of tricks.  
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