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Author Topic: too late for making a split this year  (Read 1817 times)
pembroke
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« on: July 21, 2012, 02:52:06 PM »

I'm trying to hedge for next year. Usually I end up buying a package and queen in Spring. would like to make a split/5 frame nuc now and not have to buy in Spring. I have several strong,healthy hives right now and would take a frame from a couple of them and add queen. I know I'd have to feed along until fall or later to run them thru winter. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Pembroke
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AllenF
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2012, 05:14:50 PM »

Use drawn frames with your split, buy queens, and feed them til fall. 
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Jim 134
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 07:05:59 PM »

In New England I would be making 6 frame split and buy a Queen and DO NOT Stop feeding  IMHO you need 2 deep to make the winter (60 Ibs. of feed)


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« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 12:30:12 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

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BlueBee
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2012, 09:52:02 PM »

Last year I made most of my nuc splits August 3rd without buying queens.  Those nucs had laying queens in the first week of Sept and kept building up until Mid October.  Those were 2 and 3 frame splits and they survived winter here.  I think it would be more optimal to start such splits about now; gives them a little more time to build up.  I wouldn’t buy new queens unless you have $ to burn or want different genetics.  I plan to make my nuc splits next week.
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tryintolearn
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2012, 09:23:33 AM »

bluebee did u have to feed the splits all that time?  did u use drawn comb?  i was thinking of spiltting one hive is it too late to split using foundation?  ill have no problem feeding till fall although we have a strong cotton flow going on now
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Nature Coast Beek
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2012, 10:58:53 AM »

Do you get a flow in late summer/early fall? I'd think that if you had the resources, at least trying it for the sake of experience is worth a shot. Who knows, you may get an Indian Summer and be surprised.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2012, 01:24:03 PM »

Adding drawn comb to a split could provide some insurance against back filling, however I don’t think it buys you too much until you have a laying queen.  You’ll have a decreasing population of bees to protect the comb until late September (in a walk away split started now).  Extra comb real estate gives the wax moths more opportunity to get a foothold.  I put in plastic foundation and let the bees build more comb on that if they want to; wax moths can’t attack plastic.  The splits don’t do much until the queen starts laying.

With regards to feeding; it depends upon the nectar flow in your location.  Around here, the earlier you make your splits, the less feeding you will have to do; if any.  I did feed my August splits last fall, however the splits I made around July 4th outgrew their nucs (by 2x) and I needed to pull honey from them so they wouldn’t be tempted to swarm.
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Finski
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2012, 04:50:58 PM »

.
It is July now. What you have there?
Feed in July bees. Strange.
I have just 20 three frame nucs and they take carethemselves.
Actually they are mating nucs and soo they are full of brood.
Biggest factor in nuc development is the insulation ofthe hive.
In polynucs build up is marvellous.

.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2012, 05:32:07 PM »

Finski, we’re having an epic drought in much of the USA!  No water means nectar dearth. 

My nucs are also in polystyrene boxes and they do build up quickly as you say.  I don’t feed until September and only then if they need more stores before winter. 

This had been an odd year weather wise.  I hope this pattern doesn’t persist Sad  The jet stream has been going way up into Canada allowing lots of hot dry weather into the Midwest US.  Oddly enough, whenever I look at the national radar map, the deep south seems to be getting more rain than normal.  Kentucky may be turning into a tropical rain forest?  I would not think the OP will have to feed his splits.
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pembroke
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 06:43:50 PM »

My friend, KY is dryer than a popcorn f____. very little rain over most of KY. Western KY is VERY dry. Crops have gone to pot. Even if they got rain now it's too late. Pembroke
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T Beek
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012, 07:17:24 PM »

For me....
I must agree....
With BlueBee.

Good Luck! 

Remember: all beekeeping is LOCAL!  ALL!.  Pay as much attention to anyone outside your own region as you dare.  Wink,

Some beeks just have no idea what you and yours are going through (and never will  rolleyes) regardless of alleged and/or self-proclaimed expertise.

t
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Finski
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012, 10:33:52 PM »

.
When you speak about USA, it sure that different areas are in same situation from Hawai to Alaska.

If you have heady drought and bees have no food, for God's sake, don't make any splits. They will have no future.

It will never succeed if you grow hives with pollen patty in July.

Move the hives to place where they have food.


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specialkayme
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012, 10:54:39 PM »

My area has been blessed this year, plenty of rain (I think it rained three times this past week, good size rain too). It doesn't mean the nectar is blooming right now (dearth) but Goldenrod should start up soon around here and take us home to the end.

For me, the largest issue with fall splits revolves around the dearth. I find you have to make them up stronger to bear through it.

Last year I made up a number of 2 and 3 frame medium splits in the beginning of July, with cells so they could make their own queens. I lost every single one of them. They just didn't have the populations to defend their hive, even with a .5" entrance, when the dearth set in and robbing took place. For that reason (among others) I've given up on all medium designs, and am going back to deeps.
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sterling
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 12:14:47 PM »

I'm trying to hedge for next year. Usually I end up buying a package and queen in Spring. would like to make a split/5 frame nuc now and not have to buy in Spring. I have several strong,healthy hives right now and would take a frame from a couple of them and add queen. I know I'd have to feed along until fall or later to run them thru winter. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Pembroke
I live in the northern part of TN. Our weather is very close to central KY. and it is not to late to make a five frame split in my part of TN. In the last three weeks I have made a few splits [two last Friday] and most are doing pretty good. I did give them a queen but they have time to make a queen and build up  before winter if you have the patience. But I don't. I like to see them get going and giving them a queen helps. And feeding alittle along helps also.
I did have trouble with robbing at first but since we have had some rain things have calmed down.
I made splits last year about this same time even a couple later then July and they did fine. Some I gave queens, two I didn't, they did fine also.
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tryintolearn
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 01:22:45 PM »

sterling....did u use frames with drawn comb or foundation? im thinking of trying a split here in sc we have huge cotton fields blooming now and my other hive is doing well
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ApalacheeRiverFarms
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« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2012, 02:35:17 PM »

I have a couple queens on the way to try a couple splits too. cotton should bloom for a month more if I switch fields in a few weeks. good luck and hopefully we can grow some colonies!
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Javin
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« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2012, 03:13:16 PM »

Last year I made up a number of 2 and 3 frame medium splits in the beginning of July, with cells so they could make their own queens. I lost every single one of them.

As I just split some mediums, I'm trying to figure out what you mean here.  Did you just take 2 or three frames (of brood/honey?) and put them in a medium hive body, or a medium nuc?  What do you mean you "made up a number of 2 and 3 frame medium splits?" exactly.  Coz it sounds like it might kinda be what I did, and I'd prefer not to lose them.
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sterling
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« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2012, 03:23:58 PM »

sterling....did u use frames with drawn comb or foundation? im thinking of trying a split here in sc we have huge cotton fields blooming now and my other hive is doing well
I use drawn comb but will put a foundation frame and a foundationless frame on the out side.
 Last year I fed some of the splits a little along and some that had more honey and were a little bit stronger that I didn't feed. The ones that I fed alittle drew some comb and raised more brood then the ones that I didn't feed.
 We have some wild stuff blooming here now after the rains we had and I had to quit feeding because they were backfilling the brood combs.
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