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Author Topic: Small Hive Beetles  (Read 2693 times)
keito
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« on: July 22, 2012, 11:27:31 AM »

It appears that I am losing the battle to SHB. I had six beetle blaster traps in there and they all filled with many beetles. Beetle Larva coming out of the frames. What are my options? Thanks for the advice.
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asprince
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2012, 12:35:47 PM »

Remove the infected frames and pack the bees into a small space. They can defend a small space. You must hurry, once you see larvae destruction move rapidly. You can was off the larvae and freeze the frames.


Good Luck (you will need it),

Steve 
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AllenF
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2012, 01:58:39 PM »

Are you feeding your bees?
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keito
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2012, 03:45:33 PM »

I am feeding them sugar syrup. The hive was not a really strong one I had queen problems and the population went down.
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saperica
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2012, 04:03:08 PM »

check mite, perezin will solve that problem. but you hawe a book for menagment of shb.
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tryintolearn
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 09:10:14 AM »

south crolina must be the worst place in america for shb....fight them daily here
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AllenF
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 12:25:06 PM »

Use your thumb and smush them.   I really makes you feel better inside.   
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Beeboy01
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 09:10:09 PM »

Get some 1/4 inch metal screen and wrap it around a shallow plastic tray with a little soapy water in it. When you open the hives take a SHB infested frame and bang it against the screen till the bees ans beetles are knocked off, the bees will hit the screen and fly away a little mad while the SHB's fall through the screen and drown in the soapy water. It is a quick way to clean out the SHB's while inspecting a hive. Give it a try, it works a lot better than trying to crush them with a hive tool.
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duck
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 09:30:59 PM »

i play crush the beetle daily.  got some of the beetle barn traps and they are working good.

http://www.gabees.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=26_59&products_id=370

I almost got them under control.  Diatomaceous earth all around the ground and under the hives, I believe its playing a part.

the screened inner cover with slots cut in it is also working for me, i smush a few beetles in there every day..  Its also got the temps, and humidity down.
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AllenF
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 09:41:12 PM »

Something I was thinking while picking okra yesterday.   It has been a long time since I last saw a japanese beetle on the okra.  I remember back in the 80's, when all the fruit would be ate up by the japanese beetles.  Everything in the garden, apples, grapes, plums, everything.   What happened?   Nature turned the balance.   We do not spray Sevin on everything anymore.   Beetles have stuff eating on them now to keep them in check.   SHB will be that way soon.  When the larvae go to the earth, so things will learn to like to eat them, just like with the japanese beetle.   
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asprince
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2012, 07:02:47 AM »

Maybe so, but in the mean time the battle continues!



Steve
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tryintolearn
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2012, 01:36:44 PM »

just drove up to albemarle nc today about 2 hours away to pick up a nuc....and what did i see?Huh   smb in it...i guess they are everywhere.... brought the nuc home and set it up outside installed 2 beetle barns and will continue the fight grin
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ApalacheeRiverFarms
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 02:13:32 PM »

They do seem to be everywhere. Buyer Beware!  Did you get a discount?
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marktrl
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 08:17:12 PM »

I've found that the best way to help the bees defend against SHB is to reduce the entrance and Close the screen bottom so the beetles can't get in as easy. I had opened the screen bottoms this spring for more ventilation and soon found a lot more beetles in the hives. So I closed them with oil trays and now they are much more manageable. And the oil trays catch the SHB larva and moth larva as well.
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sterling
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 08:29:39 PM »

Oil trays under the screened bottom boards has worked well for me also.
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asprince
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« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2012, 09:26:14 PM »

You guys that use the oil trays and beetle barns..........how many hives do you have? Sounds ok for two or three. How about 50 or 100?

Steve 
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duck
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« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2012, 11:26:59 PM »

beetle barn on top of frames under inner cover. whats not to like?  now the oil trays, might take more setup and moving might be a pain.


Here is another thing im going to start doing with regard to shb.  The grooved top and bottom bars seem to hold them under the plastic foundation.  the bees cant get to them there.  There are also two holes where the beetles enter the grooves from the sides of the frame.  I am going to seal up those holes with silicone and when I insert the plastic foundation, I will either bed it in wax or silicone to eliminate this hiding place.  I was also thinking of running a bead in all supers in the corners.  That way the cant hide in any crevices.
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Nature Coast Beek
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« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2012, 06:37:57 AM »

Some SHB info here. Worth the read. SHB detection and control
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tryintolearn
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« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2012, 09:24:12 AM »

no discount but we had fun crushing them when we got it opened up
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sterling
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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2012, 06:12:59 PM »

You guys that use the oil trays and beetle barns..........how many hives do you have? Sounds ok for two or three. How about 50 or 100?

Steve 
I don't have 50 or 100 but I have 38 and have an oil tray under each one. I converted the screenbottom boards to hold a $2.50 cookie sheet from wallyworld and put in about 1/4in of oil and change it every couple months if it is full of dead bettles and wax moth larva. I tried about everything else and the tray works best for me. And some bees deal with em better then others also.
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ApalacheeRiverFarms
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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2012, 06:28:44 PM »

Sterling, you have a pic of your mod?  I had thought of the same thing with my SBB.
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David McLeod
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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2012, 10:18:59 PM »

You guys that use the oil trays and beetle barns..........how many hives do you have? Sounds ok for two or three. How about 50 or 100?

Steve 

Steve, I'm shooting for 50 by this time next year and I am already seeing that I have to adapt and change. I like my oil pans under the few I have. I can already see the expense as I only have trays under a few so far and can not fathom paying full retail for 50 or more.
I'm brainstorming right now a double pallet with screens and trays. A 100' roll of 48" wire would give me enough for 66 pallets or 132 hives. I'm pricing a couple options on the wire standard #8GAW or 304stainless #6 for long term durabilty. I am unable to find a source for #7.  Basically a high and low. The pans are what I have yet to figure, do I buy the ready made pans for the freeman or do I try to have something fabricated or is there another off the shelf option. Then there is the wood.
My question to you is that if I proceeded with this project would you or others be interested? In other words is there a market and if so what would the price point be. I don't even know the current price point for "standard" pallets.
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duck
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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2012, 01:59:36 AM »

I am starting to not like anything larger than window screen on the bottom board.  it just lets them in.  im going to try and create a bait hive that will lure them in, ill fill it with all kinds of nasty years for them!
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Intheswamp
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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2012, 10:00:10 AM »


A 100' roll of 48" wire would give me enough for 66 pallets or 132 hives. I'm pricing a couple options on the wire standard #8GAW or 304stainless #6 for long term durabilty. I am unable to find a source for #7. 

Kelley has #7 listed, you might want to call... 

https://kelleybees.com/Products/Detail/?id=3336333233333330&grouped=1

Kinda pricey and it's 36".

Ed
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American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

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« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2012, 10:11:24 AM »

Duck, I would agree with you that no screens anywhere as the beetles can get through. My personal preference is solid bottom boards to screened across the board BUT add a trap or oil tray the the mix and the screens can become a beetle killer.
I never bought into the whole ventilation thing for the screens, having done cut outs all these years I've never observed a preference for "open" bottomed cavities. I do see the advantage for mite drop, though, but I'd rather have bees that deal with mites more proactively than waiting on gravity.
As it is the bees still need an entry way and because of that screen or solid is a moot point since you can seal a hive three ways to sunday and the darn beetles will still waltz right in the front door. The beetle jail entrance trap looks promising and I plan on getting around to ordering some to try them out. Knowing beetles though I would guess it would be like anything else and only skim off a few and many would still find their way into the hive.
JMO, but beetle control is going to be more like deploying a minefield rather than erecting a fence. Defense in depth with layers picking them off a few at a time. The area I am interested in is how to trap them at a distance from the hive itself. We are already behind the eight ball if the hive is the bait. If we could ever find something like a japanese beetle trap that can be cheaply made in large numbers maybe we could saturate an area away from the apiary to intercept the SHB.
Wouldn't that be a wonderful sight to see, thousands of traps full of dead beetles.
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Intheswamp
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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2012, 10:14:35 AM »

I am starting to not like anything larger than window screen on the bottom board.  it just lets them in.  im going to try and create a bait hive that will lure them in, ill fill it with all kinds of nasty years for them!
I like the fact that beetles will go through #8 *if* there is an oil tray beneath the screen.  A sealed compartment with window screening and a door to slide an oil tray in is what I want to build....of course, I've gotta get a place for a tablesaw, etc., before I can do it.  rolleyes

One thing I will be doing is replacing the #8 screening over the escape holes in my inner covers with window screen...for both wax moth and shb.

I've thought of using a bait hive, also.  I've got several yellow jacket traps around the perimeter of the field.  I catch yellow jackets, moths, flies, etc.,. and figured I'd see some beetles in there but haven't.  The bait is a bit different from what I use in my traps, though.  No oil in the yellow jacket traps and no sugar in the beetle traps I use in the hives.  If you were to set up a bait hive, would you put it in close proximity of your bees or set it up a distance from them?

Ed
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American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they wont come to yours." - Yogi Berra
David McLeod
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« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2012, 10:19:33 AM »


A 100' roll of 48" wire would give me enough for 66 pallets or 132 hives. I'm pricing a couple options on the wire standard #8GAW or 304stainless #6 for long term durabilty. I am unable to find a source for #7. 

Kelley has #7 listed, you might want to call... 

https://kelleybees.com/Products/Detail/?id=3336333233333330&grouped=1

Kinda pricey and it's 36".

Ed



Thanks Ed, I hadn't seen that. I will order me a roll of it while I can.
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« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2012, 11:19:33 AM »

..., having done cut outs all these years I've never observed a preference for "open" bottomed cavities. I do see the advantage for mite drop, though, but I'd rather have bees that deal with mites more proactively than waiting on gravity.


Without gravity the mites would not fall...if they lost their grip on the bee they would still be in close proximity to the bee and probably reattach themselves.  I tend to think that the bees have figured out the "pluck'em and let'em fall" technique and that this hygienic behavior of mite removal (and letting gravity help them) is about as proactive as they can get short of chewing up of the mites.  Huh

It would be interesting over a period of time for someone who does lots of removals to note the distance from bottom of the combs to the floor of the cavities along with noting the mite load of the colony.

It seems to me that solid bottom boards would recycle mites...mites fall to bottomboard, returning foragers enter, mites reattach to passing bees for a ride up into the combs.  BUT...I'm a newbee will little practical experience just thinking out loud and I've seen experienced beeks state that they've seen no difference between solid and screened bottom boards.

The area I am interested in is how to trap them at a distance from the hive itself. We are already behind the eight ball if the hive is the bait. If we could ever find something like a japanese beetle trap that can be cheaply made in large numbers maybe we could saturate an area away from the apiary to intercept the SHB.
Wouldn't that be a wonderful sight to see, thousands of traps full of dead beetles.

From what I understand SHB are primarily nocturnal flyers (though I've seen them flying at sundown/dusk).  What about 16-20 ounce drink and water bottles...free pickings everywhere....garbage cans, sports fields, side of the road, my front yard:whip:, etc.,.  Three or four small slits tall and wide enough for the beetles to easily crawl through in the top "shoulder" area of the bottle.  Maybe a dozen or so small holes (too small for the beetles to pass through) in the sides but towards the top for the aroma to escape from.  The beetles like dark areas but being as they mostly travel when it's dark I wonder if the bottles being clear would matter....painting or covering them would make it hard to monitor the traps.  Mix up your favorite bait and fill to just below the small holes in the sides.  Place at different points to find the "honey holes".

I think that might work for something similar to the japanese beetle traps or to the weevil traps placed around fields.  It would be cheap and easily deployed.

BUT Smiley I wonder if a larger trap might be better.  Something that could hold a couple of gallons of bait.  Something that could give off a strong aroma like a rotting melons or what-have-you.  A strong smell that would definitely float on the wind for a distance.  Maybe a 5-gallon bucket for the trap?  Use the same configuration of holes for the bucket as for the bottles?  Larger "stuff" could be used in the bait compartment...chucks of watermelon, whole rotting bananas, etc.,. 

Maybe use a combination of the bottles and buckets?  Use the bottles to "fish" for those "honey holes" and place buckets at the most productive spots?

And, yes, David...great numbers of DEAD SHB would be a grande sight!

Anyhow, I was just thinking outside the box (maybe in a bottle?)... Wink
Ed
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American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they wont come to yours." - Yogi Berra
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« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2012, 11:33:10 AM »

Ed, when I say proactive I'm thinking more along the lines of clearing out infected larvae. I do believe I have that in some of these ferals as they do open up capped brood cells and clear out the larvae. Of course grooming behaviors are part and parcel as well.
One of these days I'll get around to doing a more scientific measurement of these ferals to see if my observations can be confirmed.
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« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2012, 12:13:52 PM »

I see what you're saying, David.  I think I've seen folks refer to the removal of the host larvae as being a "hygienic" trait? 

Ed
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American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they wont come to yours." - Yogi Berra
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« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2012, 02:00:29 PM »

Easy fix,

Put some roach poison in the center of some pieces (approx. 2 inch by 3 inch) of plastic corrugated sign board.  Just slit them half way through,  put the poison in the center,  close them back up and hold them together with tape.  I use the roach poison that comes in the syringe like tube I get at Walmart.  Throw the traps on top the frames or on top the inner cover.  SHB check in but do not check out.

It doesn't look like you are getting any honey from this hive and it's in trouble.  Nuke them......
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sterling
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« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2012, 04:57:24 PM »

Sterling, you have a pic of your mod?  I had thought of the same thing with my SBB.
I don't have a picture but I will take one and email it to you if you will PM me your email address, because I don't know how to post pictures on this site.
What I do is take the sbb and add a piece of wood like a track on each side to give room for the tray. It takes a little time but the cost is not very much. The tray needs to fit the bottom so the bees can't get in. I have watched the hives late in the late evening and watched the beetles fly in the bees get after them and they will duck into the screen and fall into the tray. It will not get them all but it helps a bunch.
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« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2012, 06:11:23 PM »

just curious, do those of you seeing lots of beetles have your hives in shady damp places?  i have read that the beetles are not as interested in hives that get full sun.  i have seen this for myself over the summer by observing hives in five different locations. the ones in the sun did indeed had very few beetles, whereas the ones in shady damp places had their traps full and too many beetles to count running around in the hive.
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« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2012, 08:06:49 PM »

Squarepeg, I'm about 50 miles south of Montgomery and have not had a severe problem with beetles.  I *do* have them, though, and collect quiet a few in the traps, but seldom do I find over 4-5 live ones while I'm looking through a hive.  Having said that, this is my first year so maybe the beetles just haven't "found me" in mass, yet.  I got my first bees back in December of 2011...I know, odd time to get them but this is south Alabama. Wink  Anyhow, it was a small nuc and it was probably only the second or third inspection before I found a couple of beetles.  Since then it's been a low population of them from what I can tell.  My hives are in full sun in a pasture...only getting shade in the late evening from long shadows cast by pine trees located a couple of hundred feet to the west.  I put some large pieces of cardboard on top of my hives for some added shade on the tops and sides.

My mentor has his hives lining his driveway.  They are beside a fence and beneath some small pecan trees but in no way are they in deep shade.  The ground seems to be hard packed.  This is at the top of a small ridge and what I would call a dry spot.  He battles beetles constantly.

Are the differences in beetle populations between my little yard and his larger one due to shade/location or simply due to his yard being established longer and the beetles having become established there?

Ed
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American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they wont come to yours." - Yogi Berra
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« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2012, 08:53:35 PM »

I would say that yes with his being there longer he has had more time to aquire his own population of beetles. I see it here when I bring in a new cut out. I am seeing beetles in all cut outs but usually only a small handful but when I bring them to the yard it is no time at all before the numbers seem to reach an equilibrium with my other hives.
I wonder what the results would be if I were to shake them all out and put them on new comb and haul them off to another yard. You could probably run a clock on just how fast the numbers of beetles would grow.
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Georgia's Full Service Wildlife Solution
Atlanta (678) 572-8269 Macon (478) 227-4497
www.atlantawildliferemoval.net
georgiawildlifeservices@gmail.com
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Location: jackson co., alabama


« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2012, 09:22:54 PM »

swamp,  i would describe my beetle situation just like yours, a few here and there.  my hives also are in the sun, except for some late afternoon shade.

as far as does it take time for them to find the hives.....

not sure, but i moved two nucs to a friend's house earlier this year, because he has a big garden and wanted pollination.   the only space available was in practically full shade all day.  i went back to check them two weeks later, and the traps were about a quarter inch solid at the bottom with beetles, and there were too many to count running around the hive. (these were five frame nucs, but full of bees and soon to be put in ten frame boxes). as far as i know, there were no other hives around, because my friend said he had not been seeing honeybees in his garden.

i went back the next day and relocated them to another yard and put them in full sun.  i went through and killed all the beetles i could find, and placed fresh traps on.  that was almost two months ago, and there are still only a few beetles in those same traps.

so i'm not sure that there has to be beehives around to have shb around.  my friends yard was shady and damp.  i saw a similar situation the other day while helping another beekeeper tend to a hive he had in a similar location.
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