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Author Topic: Warre hive agenda driven crap  (Read 3215 times)
BjornBee
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« on: July 20, 2012, 07:37:33 AM »

It's no secret, the Warre groupie crowd does not like me. So let me throw this out there, so others can see the kind of promotion and koolaid some are passing around. I point out my own observations and experiences on my website, which garners me some very interesting hate mail.

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/wsx2q/after_midnight_when_everyone_is_already_drunk_we/c5g8v4d

This is full of half truths, and outright distortion of facts. Like.....

The decline of honey bee since 1947 has nothing to do with the top two points this guys claims. (Removable frames and opening the top)

After WWII, there was a drop off of number of beekeepers. This was due to changing agriculture and the dynamics of the family farm, with a huge surge towards cities and jobs. I will not even try to guess about the down fall of beekeeping due to removable tops, except to say that this is a key point in the narrow minded approach of the Warre hive crowd.

Up till the mid 1980's, beekeeping was healthy and productive. Losing 10% of your hives were considered a bad year. The worst thing that could of happened was getting AFB. (Which by the way was controlled by the removable frame Langstroth hive. AFB prior to removable frames were as high as 50% in some areas, and the basis of most inspection programs years ago. It was a serious matter destroying beekeeping back in it's day. The removable frame (and being able to inspect hives) was why AFB is controlled...even to this day.)

Then we had the introduction of varroa mites, trachea mites, various viral and bacterial issues associated with mites, a new nosema, and now small hive beetle. That does not even scratch the surface in regards to pesticides and the new classes of chemicals out there.

But the Warre crowd sprinkles the conversation with all the key words and talking points, to bash anyone not using a Warre hive, and tailors, or better yet,,,"warps" all information to best fit their ideology.

But how can you claim that the downfall of beekeeping is caused by the Langstroth hive with removable frames and a removable top, and yet claim the root of CCD is chemicals and farming practices. I guess the Warre hive is immune to chemicals.  Wink

Anyhow...read the above post. And you can get a sense of the agenda and the promotion of the Warre hive.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 06:40:28 AM by BjornBee » Logged

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briangutz
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2012, 06:30:52 PM »

I have read a lot of what you have posted on your experience with the Warre hive.  I think you may be focusing on what a small group of Warre hive users are saying.  Many beeks use the Warre hive or it principal and not make such large assumptions.  I use the Warre hive to overwinter here in Alaska.  I have found through trial and error that this seems to be the best hive for me in my climate.  I also have the standard langstroth hives that I have for honey production.  I try every year to make it through the winter with both sets of hives and the Warre is the only one with flying bees in the spring most of the time.  I wanted to thank you for you honest evolution of the Warre hive on your website.  It is very informative and is full of personal experience.  I enjoy when you post of your experiences but get lost when you start focusing on others.  Why do you care what other proclaim about the Warre hive system?  I think that personal experience trumps all.  I try and listen to all but only believe/trust in a few.

Thanks Brian

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David McLeod
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 09:23:44 PM »

I think it is just a reflection of the modern day internet age of armchair quarterbacking with the not so subtle influence of the propaganda of the collectivist anti capitalist left. I'll say it, the average american to include most beeks "educated" (used very loosely) in the modern progressive format are severely retarded in the use of basic logic and critical thinking. To put it simply they are the proverbial "useful idiots" of marxist dogma.
Now to clarify that I am not in total agreement with you Bjorn, quite frankly I think you are a horse's arse, but I do respect you and am always open to intelligent discussion which you are capable of from time to time. I myself am the proud owner of not one but two warres, though I have yet to house a colony in either of them, I built both of them with my own calloused hands and am quite proud of them from a craftman's point of view. Now I did so mainly to satisfy my own curiosity about the warre system and to compare directly to the standard langstroth I have used since... well the only I have used.
Now to the idiots point of view, trexlittlehand et al, they make the broad jump to conclusion based solely upon very slim supposition. Supposition which in theory can lead to the ills of the modern age yet fails in light of commonsense. For instance, yes the movable frame hive can lead to the spread of contagion if beeks were dumb enough to knowingly spread infected comb from hive to hive and apiary to apiary yet I know of not one responsible or ethical keep who would do so. The very same could be said of cattle trailers and sale barns being the source of bang's disease among cattle. It just does not stand to logic. Have diseases been spread in such a manner, undoubtedly but on the other hand exposure and knowledge has led to better husbandry and if anything the moveable framed hive has allowed for the early detection and elimination of such diseases more so than a system which refuses to allow the legitimate need to inspect one's stock. To even believe in this day and age in something so medieval as  nestduftwarmebingdung as the sole excuse for not practicing good husbandry is foolhardy at best and criminal at worst.
Now onto the movement of hives en masse across large breadths of the countryside. I will be the first to say and I am sure almost all beeks of my aquaintance will agree that the honeybee colony was never historically a migratory species but then again homo sapiens historically never lived in structures of steel and glass hundreds of feet above the ground either. I say a "so friggen what" to this specious arguement. A knowledgeable and careful beek already knows the sedentary nature of the honeybee colony and works with this fact when transporting hives for the much needed services the ladies provide. Is it harmful to the bees though, well it's not the best but when faced with the option of total extinction of all the colonies a beek may own due to plain and simple economic realities then the wise beek does what he must all the while protecting and preserving his working, literally, capital of bees.
And the chemical angle, well I think we all can agree that we as a society are to quick and prone to "take two of these and call me in the morning". While I and many others do suspect the chemical angle, specifically the neonics, the jury is still so far out on it that it is way to soon to grab the pitchforks and torches.
It is an all to common trait among humans of all stripes to form a lynch mob on the slightest of rumors or to see a conspiracy behind every governmental or corporate door but to go to the lengths to make the claims of these idiots is sad.
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David McLeod
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 09:28:27 PM »

BTW, if and that's a very big if I ever decide to move bees into those warres they will have frames of a type specifically so I can make a direct comparison between management styles.
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Arthur
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2012, 12:30:16 AM »

All I can say is that my first (and only, so far) hive is a Warre', and I'm already switching it to be a modified Warre' with removable frames. The standard Warre' really isn't very beginner friendly.
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