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Author Topic: Tax Freedom Day!!!  (Read 1931 times)
kingbee
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« on: July 17, 2012, 02:58:12 PM »

The new Free from Tax Day, (July the fifteenth) was announced last week. It now requires 88 days of work  shocked by the average American just to pay his or her share of the Federal tax burden. It also on average now requires 40 additional days to pay your state, county, and local taxes. however the scary thing is the 69 days  shocked  shocked the average American now works just to earn enough to overcome the regulatory burden imposed on the economy and on our pay checks by government regulations.

Together these taxes and burdens now requires 197 days of labor (54% or over half the year) before you and I can start earning the money to even begin paying our credit card bills, home mortgages, and student loans.  God help your selfish butt if you also want to eat Every day, stay warm in the winter, or get back off your feet and drive an automobile. During the first year of the current Presidential Administration the number of days till Free from Tax Day jumped by 24 days from June 23 to July 17, that should tell us something.
http://www.myfreedomfoundation.com/index.php/site/view/cost_of_government_day_announced
Some states like Washington, New Jersey, New York, and California, won't see their own Free from Tax Day until around August.


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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2012, 06:38:02 PM »

and so we can't get ahead, we can only try to keep from falling behind.............
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2012, 06:51:30 PM »

Sure glad I don’t live in CA!  I suspect most will agree this is too much tax.  The area of disagreement is whom should pick their fair share of the burden.  Since I doubt the parties will ever agree on that, I would say the problem goes to the FED to get fixed by default.  The FED can fix it, by inflating the $$$.  Realistically when you’re in as much debt as we’re in, the only way out is via inflating away the debt.  That might not meet the Republicans high moral standards, but it is the only realistic solution.
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AllenF
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« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2012, 06:59:52 PM »

Tax freedom day for people assumes that a person pays taxes.   Just wanted to throw that one out there.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2012, 07:08:11 PM »

Why do we see this as someones not paying enough. Government spending is the problem.The government consumes 40 dollars of every hundred earned across the nation. 40 percent of the gross domestic product. Why are people okay with this? I can bet the sympathizers would have a different outlook if they had to pay the taxes in one lump sum on a given day,no extensions,no rebates or refunds and the like.
If governments consume 40 percent of our output in this nation, and the contributors are about to fall in the minority,how can any one say someone is not paying enough. Perhaps we should look at the non producers to contribute something back.
Punishing achievement is a bad idea.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2012, 07:18:15 PM »

If they took every cent earned by the rich every year it would not pay the deficit.
https://factreal.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/irs-taxing-all-rich-people-not-enough-to-pay-u-s-deficit/
Seems if you took every dime they earned the government could only run 24 days.
See a spending problem yet?
I think people need to quit depending on government,the Constitution did not intend for the government to be the nanny from womb to tomb.
Do gooders have made it this way.  Career politicians have made it this way.
Remember,the road to hell has been paved with good intentions.
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David McLeod
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2012, 07:28:32 PM »

Remember,the road to hell has been paved with good intentions.

By now that sucker is a six lane paved freeway and the Obamanation is ripping down speed limits. At this rate the gates of hell are just around the next bend.
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2012, 07:29:56 PM »

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Sure glad I don’t live in CA!  I suspect most will agree this is too much tax.  The area of disagreement is whom should pick their fair share of the burden.  Since I doubt the parties will ever agree on that,

define "fair share".

 I would say the problem goes to the FED to get fixed by default.  The FED can fix it, by inflating the $$$.  Realistically when you’re in as much debt as we’re in, the only way out is via inflating away the debt.  That might not meet the Republicans high moral standards, but it is the only realistic solution.

not so.  neither inflating of the currency or more taxes are required.  we know this from history.  if you want to raise revenue and pay debt, you lower taxes and reduce spending.  lowering taxes increases productivity and revenue to the government....which could be used to pay debt IF spending is lowered.  the problem is that past governments...of both parties, got the tax part right, but the spending part wrong.  they spent the increased revenue......sometimes it was required or at least wise to increase spending.  Kennedy did it to begin the cold war fight and Reagan did it, in part, to repair the damage done by Carter...and to fight the USSR.  even so, neither ended up with the debt to GDP ratio that we now have.  the only president who has done as poorly is FDR who spent massive amounts on both war (necessary) and social welfare programs (destructive).  his lasting legacy, we now live with.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2012, 07:46:16 PM »

Remember,the road to hell has been paved with good intentions.

By now that sucker is a six lane paved freeway and the Obamanation is ripping down speed limits. At this rate the gates of hell are just around the next bend.

Now there is a perfectly logical reason for the heat and drought!! grin grin
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BlueBee
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2012, 07:49:02 PM »

I’m 100% sure that our elected officials will not suddenly change their ways and cut the budget (as they should) no matter who is elected.  They just don’t work that way.  Why would you believe they will start now?  They’re more interested in their personal power games, than in what’s good for the country.  They will do nothing until a real economic crisis is upon us. 

Kathyp, you can’t seriously believe that ANYTHING the politicians do in Washington is going to remove 15 TRILLION in Debt do you?  The numbers have just gotten too big.  A tax cut to the middle class might stimulate the economy (I’ll give you that), but it isn’t going to raise 15 trillion in our lifetimes.  The DOD spending itself in 2012 is 1 to 1.4 TRILLION dollars!  Where is all that money going to come from?  The numbers are so far out of control the only way to bring them down is to cut each dollar in about half via inflation. 

Price of corn might start that inflating process before too long......
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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2012, 08:30:57 PM »

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Why would you believe they will start now?


there are those who would.  Paul Ryan is one.  we just need to clone him and a couple of others of like mind.  and we need to get the American people off their collective backsides and duct tape their hands to their sides.

it can be done, but it will be hard and take time and take the right people in office.

not sure where you are getting your DOD numbers.  since there is no budget, i'll give you that it's difficult to keep track of things, but this is the request for FY 2013

http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=15056
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Javin
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2012, 11:02:56 AM »

Sure glad I don’t live in CA!  I suspect most will agree this is too much tax.  The area of disagreement is whom should pick their fair share of the burden.  Since I doubt the parties will ever agree on that, I would say the problem goes to the FED to get fixed by default.  The FED can fix it, by inflating the $$$.  Realistically when you’re in as much debt as we’re in, the only way out is via inflating away the debt.  That might not meet the Republicans high moral standards, but it is the only realistic solution.

What is "inflating away the debt?"  I've never heard of this.  It doesn't even sound like it would make logical sense.
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Intheswamp
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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2012, 11:26:13 AM »

Remember,the road to hell has been paved with good intentions.

By now that sucker is a six lane paved freeway and the Obamanation is ripping down speed limits. At this rate the gates of hell are just around the next bend.
Nope, ain't no curves in that road...it's straight ahead.  The vanishing point on the horizon is coming into view, though!

Ed
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2012, 01:17:39 PM »

Javin as far I can figure there are only 3 ways to make a substantial dent in our 15 trillion dollars of debt.

1.)  We pay it off.  This is not a viable option since the debt is so huge and since we are STILL spending way more than we collect each year.  There is no way to pay off that much debt, period. 

2.)  We default on the debt and give the bond holders 20 cents on the dollar.  This is what usually happens in a business bankruptcy and what the Greeks did.  Problem is the rich investors and banks HATE to take a loss and since they control the money that keeps us going, defaulting on the debt seems unlikely to me.  I hate taking a loss too (I’ve had my share), but if you’re going to invest in something that is clearly insolvent, then you better expect some negative consequences at some point.

3.)  The FED goes on a money printing spree (via their QE programs or other means) and devalues the dollar so that each new dollar is only worth 50 cents of the old dollar.  We would still have 15 trillion “dollars” to pay off, but since we would now be paying that with new dollars that are only worth 50% of the old dollars, the debt burden would effectively be cut in half.  This is probably the option that hurts the most people and hence that is what will probably happen (old Wall Street axiom there).  The bankers and investors take a loss on their bonds and the rest of the country gets hit with much higher prices on the things we buy.  How does $8 gasoline sound?  $6 milk?  On the other hand, people underwater on their mortgages may see a windfall.   

Options 1 and 2 would require the Congress to do something, so those won’t happen.  Option 3 in under the control of the Federal Reserve and they can and will act so I suspect that is what will happen….at some point.
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loumaro
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2012, 02:31:03 PM »

Hey Blue Bee Where have you been the last 40 years?Huh? A 2010 Dollar in terms of 1970
dollars is worth 18 cents.  The government has stolen the difference right out of your pocket.
And you want more. Inflation should not be allowed to occure, but when the gov took us off
the gold standard that allowed the gov to steal your money right out of your pocket.
Wake up.

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Louie
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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2012, 03:18:52 PM »

LOL, where is the US Gov going to get $15 trillion worth of Gold to pay off the debt and back our paper!

So the government stole the 82 cents from the 1970 dollar?  I would say that depends on how you had your money invested.  If you bought a home in 1970, I would say you got the better end of the deal; the bankers got robbed and you got a windfall.  If instead you hoarded your 1970 dollars under the mattress, then yes, the government stole 82 cents from you.  The FED wants some inflation to prevent people from hoarding money and to put it to work growing the economy.      

This is an example of why options 1 and 2 will never occur; people in Congress (kind of like you and I) will never agree on monetary policy.  Hence by default, the FED will inflate us out of the problem.  I really don’t think we have 40 years to solve the problem though!  If history is any lesson, it would be wise not to hoard paper cash under the mattress.

LOL, Congress created the problem, but they'll end up blaming the FED for the disaster all this debt will end up causing.
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kingbee
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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2012, 03:38:59 AM »

All his promises to the contrary, (Name one promise he's kept) the only thing that the Barrack Ness Monster will accomplish with a quantitative easing or by further inflating the currency is the total and complete distruction of the American Middle Class.  But what the heck?  That (IMHO) is A-OK by him because he is intent on creating a two class society made up of a few Bourgeoisie Commissars like himself,  police and the toiling proletariat reprensented by you and me.  Even Marx and Engals recognized that Americans were immune to their peculiar type of infectious Social disease, because in the past every American wanted to become a Capitalists.
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Javin
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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2012, 10:21:42 AM »

So if I'm understanding this correctly, your "solution" is to make the value of EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR IN THE WORLD worth half what it is now, and as an end result, we'll have "half the amount of debt."  But we'll still have the debt.  It'll just be half as much and EVERY American suffers significantly as a result.  Would it not be easier to just quit hemorrhaging money and set up a budget that pays down the debt over time?  Quit coming up with 4 trillion dollar plans that are doomed to fail and cost more than 4 trillion in the long run?  Quit subsidizing things like artists, and high fructose corn syrup?  Quit extending the amount of time people get to stay on welfare and unemployment?  Funnel all that money back into the budget and quit spending money we don't have?  Naw... Let's not do what makes sense.  Let's just make the value of the dollar so worthless that the debt seems less insurmountable.  Nevermind the fact that absolutely EVERYONE suffers with this plan.
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kathyp
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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 09:41:45 AM »

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Would it not be easier to just quit hemorrhaging money and set up a budget that pays down the debt over time

maybe not easier, but certainly wiser! 

Quote
total and complete distruction of the American Middle Class. 


this is where the marxist mix of his marxist/fascist thinking comes in.  you can't have equality and have a middle class. you can only have the masses and the rulers.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kingbee
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« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2012, 06:11:11 PM »

Hey Blue Bee Where have you been the last 40 years?Huh? A 2010 Dollar in terms of 1970
dollars is worth 18 cents.  The government has stolen the difference right out of your pocket.
And you want more. Inflation...

Our good friend and colleague Blue Bee obviously never heard of a tread mill. 

Blue, good buddy. Inflation is like a tread mill and all inflation accomplishes is to speed up the walk way motor and force every worker to walk faster and faster then finally run to keep from being expelled out the rear end of the machine.  Regardless of the class warfare tossed around today, inflation (in the form of inflated cost of doing business) is a major reason so many jobs were out sourced (otherwise known as exported) to China and other 2nt and 3rd world countries.
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