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Author Topic: Honey Kills Babies!  (Read 4686 times)
Javin
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« on: July 16, 2012, 03:00:51 PM »

I'm sick, sick, sick to death of hearing this bullcrap.  I just heard it from another friend on Facebook, and it doesn't matter how much you set people straight, they're going to swallow whatever some knee-jerk uneducated doctor is going to tell them.

The idea that honey is bad for babies comes from a 1978 study where they found botulin spores in some of the honey samples.  They don't bother stating how MANY honey samples they took, or how many other items were sampled, but they do go on to mention that botulin was also found in vacuum cleaners, and dirt.  So why not feed babies honey?  Because it's the only thing the doctors can control.  It's easier to tell someone not to feed their baby honey than it is to tell them to make sure they don't vacuum around the kid, or allow them to crawl on the ground.

And why is it that we've decided that everything in the world needs to be sterile in the first place?  We know for a FACT that your immune systems can't build without exposure to immune triggers, so our solution is to REMOVE ALL IMMUNE TRIGGERS from the WORLD?  How does this make even a little bit of common sense?

Then there's the known antibacterial and antiviral aspects of honey.  One study that has NEVER BEEN DONE in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD is to see if the botulin spores found in honey are even VIABLE anymore.  They could be (and likely are) very much dead making them similar to a "killed vaccine" which could help you build immunity without the risks of infection. 

I also love that when the doctors have had cases of children with childhood botulism, the first thing they ask is, "Did you feed your child raw honey?"   Inevitably, the answer is "no."  So then, "Ummmm, did you put honey in anything?"  "No." "Well... How about honey nut cheerios?" "Yes!" "WELL THERE YA GO!"  (I kid you not, this is ACTUALLY what doctors are saying today.  This is what passes for quack science now.)  They completely ignore the fact that botulin spores are found en-masse in nature.  They're EVERYWHERE.  Where do you think the bees pick them up from?

There has never, ever, in the history of the world, ever been a single case where botulism was proven to be CAUSED by honey consumption.  Period.  It's never happened.  Look it up.  They've never even tested the spores found in honey to find out if they're still alive.

The next person to tell me it's wrong to feed a baby honey, I'm going to smack in the mouth.

Sorry for the rant...

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AllenF
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2012, 03:07:45 PM »

From Wiki
"Infantile botulism shows geographical variation. In the UK, only six cases have been reported between 1976 and 2006, yet the U.S. has much higher rates: 1.9 per 100,000 live births, 47.2% of which are in California."
But they can not say if the spores came from honey or somewhere else.    I did not give honey to my kid until he was 1.   And I tried to keep him out of the dirt and off the ground also.   Spores can be everywhere.   My sister in law will not give honey to her kids and they are older than mine.   Figure that one out.   
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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2012, 03:18:57 PM »

and i tossed my kids in the dirt, let them eat off the floor, and dipped the pacifier in honey.  mostly....just to tick off my mother   evil 
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AllenF
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2012, 03:21:13 PM »

My mother just gave me sweet tea in a bottle.    grin
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bassman1977
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« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2012, 03:30:38 PM »

I just gave my son honey for the first time over the weekend.  He's 2.  Personally, I'd rather be safe than kill my kid.  He doesn't need honey before he's one.  Nor does he need it now.  Just saying...
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BjornBee
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« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2012, 04:09:44 PM »


The next person to tell me it's wrong to feed a baby honey, I'm going to smack in the mouth.


It's wrong to feed a baby honey!

If your done threatening folks....bring it on! 

I'll let you go first, as long as you let me hit you back.  Wink
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Bee-Bop
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« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2012, 04:29:42 PM »

I was born in 1940, with a defective stomach lining.

I was fed, ready for this, a mixture of - goats milk and honey - for about 4 months.

Of course this was long before all this fancy research on honey was done.

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iddee
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2012, 04:30:10 PM »

I just tell people to finish the sentence..... or any other raw food. It isn't just honey.
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2012, 04:54:52 PM »

I just tell people to finish the sentence..... or any other raw food. It isn't just honey.

Yeah,but I don't see a requirement to label vegetables not to be eaten raw.Or fruits for that matter. They hang in that same dusty air where the botulism spores glean from.
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Javin
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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2012, 05:48:52 PM »

I just gave my son honey for the first time over the weekend.  He's 2.  Personally, I'd rather be safe than kill my kid.  He doesn't need honey before he's one.  Nor does he need it now.  Just saying...

Hey, bassman, here's a few other things that you should worry about: 

Water kills babies.  So do puppies.  And anything that grows from the ground.  And I can actually show you WAY MORE FACTS that prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.  So might wanna "be safe" and lock your kid in a bubble. 

The benefits of honey (antioxidants; natural antibiotics; natural immune booster; natural antihistamines; unprocessed, natural sugars; etc. etc. etc.) FAR outweigh the off-the-wall improbability that it causes BOTULISM just because some quack came up with the theory without a single clinical study ever being done.  You can spare me the "I'd rather be safe than kill my kid" crap, as if you're insinuating anyone else who doesn't follow the same knee-jerk mantra ISN'T being safe and is TRYING to kill their kid.  You can step right off your high horse.  Anyone who doesn't feed their kids honey for fear of botulism ONLY does so out of paranoia and ignorance.

Pretty sure you vacuum your house.  In that SAME STUDY they found botulin spores in vacuums too.  So if you want to "be safe and not kill [your] kid" then you better stop vacuuming.
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G3farms
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2012, 06:14:45 PM »

what if you use a HEPA vacuum?!?! grin
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stella
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2012, 06:25:31 PM »

and i tossed my kids in the dirt, let them eat off the floor, and dipped the pacifier in honey.  mostly....just to tick off my mother   evil 


I tossed mine in the dirt too. Let them swim in the lake when the algae was in bloom. Fed them some wild edible plants and fruit unwashed from the outdoors. They went barefoot all summer.
*gasp!*

You should see them now. That dirty, natural, raw food, environment made them grow into big muscular strapping young men. With sharp minds to match.
No allergies. No defects. No problems.

Lots of things kill babies. But the chances escalate when 'Big Ag' has its foot in it.
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hardwood
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2012, 07:15:59 PM »

Maybe a dingo ate the baby?  grin

Scott
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AllenF
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2012, 07:37:02 PM »

That's bad Scott.    grin
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Bee-Bop
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2012, 07:38:45 PM »

and i tossed my kids in the dirt, let them eat off the floor, and dipped the pacifier in honey.  mostly....just to tick off my mother   evil 

Never dipped the pacifier in honey;

Dippeded it in whiskey when they were teething, it numbed the pain in their gums !
This was done on advice of their Dr., if you didn't have paragoric (sp).

Now aday's we'd probably be locked up for child abuse.

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kingbee
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2012, 03:14:25 AM »

what if you use a HEPA vacuum...
Be careful not to vacuum up the rug rat with the rest of the dirt!!  LOL Just kidding.

Botulism spores are likely a lot like AFB spores because they are plentiful in nature.  Every tea spoon of dirt should have its share of botulism spores.  However I seem to 'member' that they only thrive in the absence of Oxygen.  You are pretty safe in my estimation if you refuse to pressure cook or pressure can your homey because the canning process drives the air from the jar, not to mention it heats the honey to 245 degrees if performed correctly.
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kdm
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2012, 07:51:57 AM »

Years ago Charles M. ,can't spell his last name, in American bee culture had a peace on this. He said even mothers milk had the spores in it,among other things.
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uglyfrozenfish
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2012, 08:16:29 AM »

I know that you are talking about not giving babies honey because of botulIsm, however there is another issue when it comes to babies and that is allergens. Honey is high on the allergen list right up there with peanut butter. The reasOn for not giving our kids honey before they are two is because if they go into anaphylactic shock due to allergies it is incredibly hard to save a baby. Same reason it is recommended to not give kids nuts before they are two. The only reason we even considered this in our family is because everyone in our family does have allergies of some type. Please note this was a calculated and thought out plan on Our part. Not a knee jerk reaction to one person or doctor or survey. I agree that there is to much knee jerk reaction to a lot of things but there is usually a well reasoned argument as well.
Also my kids play in the dirt with the chicken poop and eat fresh food straight from the garden. We are proud parents when they eat dirt especially since my wife saw a research study that found that kids who eat dirt are smarter grin
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kingbee
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2012, 03:51:37 PM »

... my kids play in the dirt with ...chicken poop and eat fresh food straight from the garden. We are proud parents when they eat dirt especially since my wife saw a research study that found that kids who eat dirt are smarter...


I have been there and seen this and you better bet that I have the tee shirt to prove it.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,884551,00.html

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/9/8/03-0033_article.htm

I remember staying over at a friend's house when I was 6 or 7.  He snuck one of his mothers spoons out of the house and he, his sister, and I retired to the tractor shed where we commenced to eat the dirt from between the lugs of his daddy's tractor tires.  The dirt from a 1940s Ford 2N tractor is very nice with a certian defining aroma and a nutty finish but the dirt clinging to the back tires on a rear engine Allis Chalmers Model G is the absolute best.   
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Javin
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2012, 04:02:41 PM »

The dirt from a 1940s Ford 2N tractor is very nice with a certian defining aroma and a nutty finish but the dirt clinging to the back tires on a rear engine Allis Chalmers Model G is the absolute best.   

 grin grin grin grin grin grin LMMFAO!
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