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Author Topic: places without CCD  (Read 28569 times)
buzzbee
Ken
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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2013, 03:40:15 PM »

The composition of fluvalinate changed in the 90's.The inert ingredients make it much more toxic to bees. Fluvalinate and camaphous remain embedded in the wax and bee breads while neonics tend to breakdown in the hive and pass out of the bee gut in a short amount of time.
again, neonics are not free of harm,but ruling it as the only cause is irresponsible as there is evidence of a convergence of pathogemns and chemicals coming into play.

http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/taufluvalinate_red.pdf


From Page 27 of the document on fluvalinate
" Available information suggests that terrestrial insects will likely be adversely affected by
tau-fluvalinate use. The Agency currently does not estimate risk quotients for terrestrial non­
target insects. However, an appropriate label statement is required to protect foraging honeybees
when the LD
50
is less than 11
g/bee. For tau-fluvalinate, the acute contact toxicity study to
honeybees indicates that the LD
50
is 0.2
g/bee. This classifies tau-fluvalinate as highly toxic to
honeybees. The impregnated strip formulation is used in beehives to treat
Varroa
mites when
bees are not present. "
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 04:07:13 PM by buzzbee » Logged
Stromnessbees
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2013, 04:43:14 PM »

...
Australia did not suffer from CCD so much,but most CCD cases in the US had this virus. A definite correlation.


I am sorry, but this is not what I call a correlation.

If IAPV virus was responsible for CCD, then we should see a lot of it in Australia.
Many hives that died of CCD tested negative for IAPV.

Most of all: where are the shivering, paralyzed bees - the main symptom of IAPV?

« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 06:19:30 AM by Stromnessbees » Logged
bluegrass
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« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2013, 04:57:13 PM »

The more I read about CCD the more I begin to think that John Miller is right. CCD is caused by PPB (piss poor beekeeping). His 10,000 hives survived the mass failures of 05,06 and 08 when neighboring hives all collapsed. He says CCD is nothing more than years of neglect catching up with the beekeepers.   
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Sugarbush Bees
buzzbee
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« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2013, 05:11:03 PM »

Here I have  photo of a building in Mississippi. It is not far from corn,beans and cotton. Probably the most chemically treated plants by all reckoning.
Within the studs of these walls live several colonies of honeybees. This building has been occupied by bees for quite some time and continues to be.There are a lot of wild colonies in this area. Perhaps when nature takes it's course via hive beetles and wax moths destroying old comb it allows these bees to survive. Perhaps it's magic.

So for some reason the neonics have not killed these bees:
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buzzbee
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« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2013, 05:20:44 PM »

Bluegrass,
You may be on to something. As bee operations get larger and larger due to scale of econmy in size,they have to rely more and more on hired help. As most of this help sees this as a job and not their livelihood I can see where they do not pay attention to detail when working the hives as the owner/operator of the operation would. Especially if the bees are trucked off site and are at the hands of a brokers hired help.
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bluegrass
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« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2013, 05:33:16 PM »

Oh how I love feral bees... grin I have heard for years that all the ferals were dead.... Then I moved to KY in 2005 and found ferals everywhere... Wish I still had access to all those bees that people would pay me to get rid of.
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Sugarbush Bees
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« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2013, 05:42:41 PM »

Here I have  photo of a building in Mississippi. It is not far from corn,beans and cotton. Probably the most chemically treated plants by all reckoning.
Within the studs of these walls live several colonies of honeybees. This building has been occupied by bees for quite some time and continues to be.There are a lot of wild colonies in this area. Perhaps when nature takes it's course via hive beetles and wax moths destroying old comb it allows these bees to survive. Perhaps it's magic.

So for some reason the neonics have not killed these bees:



Unfortunately there is no way this statement can be verified.

How do we know these bees are really next to treated crops? - They are not visible in the picture.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2013, 05:59:32 PM »

I took this photo myself while attending a function with several other members of this forum on a get together with people from all across our country.If I would have known it was going to be an issue,Iwill take more pictures if I make it back to MS.
How can I verify what you have stated?
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hardwood
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« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2013, 06:11:35 PM »

I've seen the same cabin every year for the last 3. You basically have to drive through fields to get to it.

Scott
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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2013, 06:35:58 PM »


How can I verify what you have stated?



Here a report from my home county where I witnessed the CCD:

http://sistrans.gruene.at/umwelt_energie_klima/artikel/lesen/73318/

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bluegrass
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« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2013, 07:59:57 PM »

Strommes

You would be amazed by the vastness of crops grown in the USA. Especially Corn and Soy. Even 20 minutes out side the Beltway in Washington DC there are corn fields. Production here is so massive that our government will pay farmers not to plant certain crops when an over abundance would drive prices down. 
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Sugarbush Bees
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« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2013, 11:38:33 AM »

-
Here is a new report from Europe made by DEFRA UK Honeybee Disease in Europe - The Food and Environment ...

www.fera.defra.gov.uk/.../syngentaBeeDiseaseRepo... -

63 pages

Bee losses are explained country by country. Figures are far from 35% losses of USA.
In European countries 15-20% is quite usual.

Italy and Neatherlands have highest averages 30%.

Honeybee Disease in Europe
Report to Syngenta Ltd
January 2013


This report aims to provide an overview on the diseases of honeybees and their distribution in Europe. There have been a number of reviews of honeybee pathology, therefore this review aims to highlight the key areas impacting on bee health in Europe. It will also not deal specifically with CCD as this is not widespread currently and is well reviewed.
The major pests/diseases are Varroa and viruses, acarine (Acarapis woodi), American foulbrood, European foulbrood, Nosema, together with unspecified multiple infections.
The 2009 Bee Mortality and Surveillance in Europe report to EFSA identified the paucity of bee disease data for Europe and recommended the establishment of the current EU Reference Laboratory for Honeybee Health which is co-ordinating its first pilot survey from September 2012. Until these data become available there is no comprehensive dataset available to understand the distribution of bee diseases in Europe.
The major bacterial diseases of honeybees affecting developing brood are the foulbroods, European foulbrood (EFB) caused by Melissococcus plutonius and American foulbrood (AFB) caused by Paenibacillus larvae. Both cause the death of infected brood but AFB is far more virulent and will ultimately result in colony death if uncontrolled. EFB is a far more sporadic disease from which generally only weak colony succumbs.
Acarine is caused by the tracheal mite Acarapis woodi which infests the trachea of adult honeybees. The mite has been identified or is present on all major continents with the exception of Australia. It feeds on the bee hemolymph and has also been identified as a vector of viruses. Infestation of the adult bees with significant numbers of tracheal mites results in high level of bee mortality and poor overwinter survival.
There are two forms of the microsporidian (fungus) Nosema associated with clinical signs of disease in honeybees: Nosema apis and Nosema ceranae. Nosema spp. invade the digestive cells lining the mid-gut of the bee, there they multiply rapidly and within a few days (3-7 days) the cells are packed with spores, the resting stage of the parasite. When the host cell ruptures, it sheds the spores into the gut where they accumulate in masses, to be later excreted by the bees. If spores from the excreta are picked up and swallowed by another bee, they can germinate and once more become active, starting another round of infection and multiplication.
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« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2013, 03:04:50 PM »

The growing consensus among many Beeks and Science is that "the causes of colony mortality are multiple and interrelated."

The latest science I've read indicates that corn (bees don't really like corn and corn doesn't need bees for pollination), even corn w/ heavy concentrations of neonic pesticides aren't the issue as much as the 'residual' talc remaining in the soil for many years, including the surrounding farm perimeters where weeds grow that ARE attractive to bees.

However; I must agree that "bad beekeeping" is a likely culprit in many instances and deserves a place close to the top, but how will any of us ever know?  

And I feel that most issues involve inexperience and QUEEN problems, again few beeks realize it at the time or simply won't/don't admit it when they do.  

THEN; Some People can make some serious money with bees but if treated like cattle, a domesticated animal, well then is it any wonder that colonies are dying?  

Honeybees are the ultimate "socialist" insect and it could be that they are simply rebelling against capitalism.  It sure hasn't helped them now has it?  maybe we should re-coin CCD to 'Capitalism collaspe Disorder'

Some recent research has come out that the mere presence of IBDS (idiopathic brood disease syndrome) makes a colony 3.2 times as likely to die as colonies without IBDS.  Including those colonies held in the same yards, thus one would suppose they were also exposed to the same environment and forage, no?

Beeks have been stuffing our bees with chemicals either intentionally or as a byproduct from our environment for over 70 years.  Their contanimated wax tells us the story yet beeks keep putting more crap in our hives, trying every new and bizarre technique to come on the market to 'save' them all to little avail to the bees.  

When really what we probably should be doing is to LEAVE THEM ALONE for a while (yeah that's gonna happen). Start with banning cross country beekeeping, keeping things strictly regional for a bit, then JUST STOP putting things(chemicals, sugar, anything and everything really) in a hive that the bees didn't bring in.

READY, SET, GO!  grin

What is IBDS?  As the name implies, "NO ONE REALLY KNOWS" and I'm not ready to simply blanket the solution with a simple (well, not so simple) ban on neonics (even if I might agree, and I do) but my interest is in TODAY's beekeeping and what we all can do to protect our bees and ourselves RIGHT NOW, not after these products are banned.  And what about the residue?

Ideas?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 04:12:21 PM by T Beek » Logged

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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2013, 09:36:06 PM »

No, there is no growing consensus that the reasons for CCD are multifactorial, this is just what the pesticide corporations want us to believe.

The fact that I saw colonies collapse after neonic exposure amongst otherwise perfect conditions has proven to me, that neonics are to blame.

Ban these pesticides immediately and improve living conditions for our bees everywhere, that's the way forward.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2013, 09:44:27 PM »

Get me a garden full of Sevin and I can show you a bee  die off.
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« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2013, 11:03:10 PM »

Get me a garden full of Sevin and I can show you a bee  die off.
I have a hive that I removed from a truck tool box that had a broken bag of sevin in it. The bees and the sevin had been in this box for years. The bottom of the box was full of dead bees and the hive still had 10 full frames worth of brood and well over 40 pounds of honey that we had to seal up and throw away.
I doubt if any bees would survive if there were systemics in that box.
Jim
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Finski
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« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2013, 01:31:24 AM »



Ban these pesticides immediately and....


How do you know so much about CCD? Are you working in beekeeping university or?
I have believed that UK has no beekeeping reseaching.
.

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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2013, 04:45:56 AM »


How do you know so much about CCD? Are you working in beekeeping university or?
I have believed that UK has no beekeeping reseaching.


I have spent a considerable amount of time researching the topic after witnessing apiaries succumb to CCD in the UK, Austria and Germany.

Actually, several institutes in the UK have got major bee research projects running, I have been in touch with some of the scientists involved.

Maybe you should not write about this topic if you are not familiar with the latest research results.
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T Beek
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« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2013, 05:20:58 AM »

 beat a dead horse 

Wouldn't it be nice if people could respond to questions and opinions presented instead of letting their mouths engage before their brain is in gear.  Of course that would mean actually 'reading' and absorbing others opinions instead of 'assuming' to know everything.

The universe gave humans 2 ears and one mouth for a very good reason IMHO. 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 05:48:45 AM by T Beek » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2013, 08:10:13 AM »

You cannot spend much time on any bee forum around the world without running into Finski. He often rubs people the wrong way, but in my 7 year experience reading his posts he isn't one to post something and not know what he is talking about.

I am pretty sure UK denies the existence of CCD in their country still as do many European countries.
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